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Old July 12 2013, 11:10 PM   #31
The Realist
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
You are a fan of the films rather than the books - first and foremost I love the original Fleming creation and try to forget the tongue in cheek git from the middle era movies. That's nothing like Bond.
Oh, I've read and enjoyed Fleming, but as I noted in response to tighr above, it's not necessarily a given that "more like Fleming = better" when it comes to the cinematic Bond. Besides which, the "middle era movies" -- which I guess refers largely to the Roger Moore years -- are my least favorite as well.

I'm not after parody Bond, but what I am after is a Bond whose life and world (the occasional bout of torture and threat of death aside) is enviable and exciting. For at least 20 successful movies, the essence of movieBond was, "Christ, I wish I could be like that suave, witty, deadly, drowning-in-babes bastard." Nobody does it better, the world is not enough, and all that. As I say, I know the current fashion is for everything to be dark and serious and angsty and self-important, and we're supposed to sneer at such wish-fulfillment and escapism as puerile and childish. But I'll take it over Craig glowering his one-note way through another "Flemingesque" performance anytime.
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Old July 12 2013, 11:18 PM   #32
tighr
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
You are a fan of the films rather than the books.
Was that for me, or was I misquoted? I am a fan of the films AND the books, but I recognize that many of the films are Adam West Batman-level campy (mostly the Roger Moore films, especially Live and Let Die and Moonraker). The Lazenby film and the Dalton films are probably the most true to the source, and Living Daylights or OHMSS are probably my favorites. Even the Connery films descended into campy-ness, with the jetpack from Thunderball.

My favorite film remains Goldeneye (a wholly original story and title), but Casino Royale was probably the best adaptation of all the books. Some of the early films only take the titles from their source material!
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Old July 13 2013, 12:18 AM   #33
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

I was agreeing with tighr and replying to The Realist.

Anyway,

tighr wrote: View Post
Some of the early films only take the titles from their source material!
Yeah, I still think there is some mileage in filming the stories from Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me.
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Last edited by Relayer1; July 13 2013 at 02:03 PM.
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Old July 13 2013, 12:33 AM   #34
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Is it true Logan will be writing? That just completely baffles me. The guy must have blackmail folders on half of Hollywood.

Skyfall was truly beautiful. The script, however, was utter shit, maybe the single worst-written Bond film.

However, I have to give a lot of the former credit to Deakins. I hope he returns as DP.
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Old July 13 2013, 12:56 AM   #35
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Too bad. I was hoping we'd get another director so David Arnold would return.
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Old July 13 2013, 01:19 AM   #36
tighr
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Skyfall was truly beautiful. The script, however, was utter shit, maybe the single worst-written Bond film.
Most Bond fans would probably disagree with you, and cite Die Another Day as a worse example.

Somehow, in the span of less than one year, a North Korean gets believable plastic surgery/genetic therapy, finds a diamond mine in South Africa, becomes a billionaire playboy celebrity, is knighted by the Queen, builds a satellite death ray that can destroy anything you point it at, and his main goal with it is to.... build a road from North Korea to South Korea so that foot soldiers can march across a former minefield? Why not just point the death ray at the South Korean President, then while you're at it the American President, the British Queen, and why not just blow up the UN building while you're at it. Clearly it already has the ability to neutralize nuclear bombs, since we see that on film.

Meanwhile, James Bond is equipped with a virtual reality simulator, a surfboard with a storage compartment for guns, the ability to stop his own heart, and a motherfucking invisible car.

The fact that Bond in Skyfall is equipped only with a gun and a miniature radio beacon is beautiful.
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Old July 13 2013, 03:03 AM   #37
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Skyfall is every bit as absurd. The difference is at least Purvis and Wade possess a little aptitude for comedic timing. DAD had punch. Skyfall had none.

More importantly, however, Logan tried so hard to recapture the psychological nuance of TDK and failed so miserably that it came off as parody at best. In other words, it was the eager overachiever.

DAD was just stupid.

ETA: Also, the first act of DAD is probably the best-written 30 minutes of Bond-film in the last 30 years. It really didn't go downhill until Berry appeared onscreen.
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Old July 13 2013, 06:26 AM   #38
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

The Realist wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
You are a fan of the films rather than the books - first and foremost I love the original Fleming creation and try to forget the tongue in cheek git from the middle era movies. That's nothing like Bond.
Oh, I've read and enjoyed Fleming, but as I noted in response to tighr above, it's not necessarily a given that "more like Fleming = better" when it comes to the cinematic Bond. Besides which, the "middle era movies" -- which I guess refers largely to the Roger Moore years -- are my least favorite as well.

I'm not after parody Bond, but what I am after is a Bond whose life and world (the occasional bout of torture and threat of death aside) is enviable and exciting. For at least 20 successful movies, the essence of movieBond was, "Christ, I wish I could be like that suave, witty, deadly, drowning-in-babes bastard." Nobody does it better, the world is not enough, and all that. As I say, I know the current fashion is for everything to be dark and serious and angsty and self-important, and we're supposed to sneer at such wish-fulfillment and escapism as puerile and childish. But I'll take it over Craig glowering his one-note way through another "Flemingesque" performance anytime.
Every Bond movie is also a reflection of their time and social era. Just look at old Bond movies from the Connery era.. to be honest part of what he does could be construed as rape (attempted or otherwise). Remember the scene with him and Pussy Galore (that name alone makes me either chuckle or roll my eyes) in the shed where he basically forces himself on her until she finally gives in? The scene in 60s context is meant to show how utterly cool and man-ish Bond is that even if women resist him they can't forever and in the end his sexyness prevails.

Film a scene like that today and the media will have huge "Bond abuses woman in new movie!!!" page one articles. Yet in the 60s this was a representation of the social standing of women and men. Bond took it maybe a bit further than that to exaggerate the character and show his larger than life, every guy wants to be like Bond image but it's still there.

Bond movies were always a bit childish and very unrealistic but it's how people wanted him to be.. that alcohol guzzling, women using by the dozens and villain defeating supermacho was the male ideal at the time and always was throughout the movies but some of that just doesn't fly with today's audience anymore or it get's relegated to the comedy/absurd corner.

This is also why Craig's Bond movies are for the most part so successful.. it's part Craig's brilliant performance of the character but also the total shift in tone. Bond now bleeds, gets beaten up, gets his heart broken and barely manages to survive and that makes him a better relatable character and this is why he works better today because he seems more real.
People know that no matter how heroic you are a punch to the face will hurt and you will bleed.. that a heavy object to your balls will hurt like a mother but this Bond is hurting yet he never gives up.

I love the old Bond movies for their campiness and larger than life character, their humor and wacky gadgets but the current Bond is far more interesting and i hope they continue with that tone even after Craig passes the torch over to his successor.
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Old July 13 2013, 03:11 PM   #39
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
The scene in 60s context is meant to show how utterly cool and man-ish Bond is that even if women resist him they can't forever and in the end his sexyness prevails.
It's also meant to show that Bond is so irresistible he can even turn a lesbian straight, which would be even more problematic in today's social context. Daniel Craig's Bond isn't without his sexually creepy moments, though.
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Old July 13 2013, 04:44 PM   #40
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

I'm not sure why people call Skyfall glum? It's the funniest Craig Bond film by miles!
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Old July 13 2013, 05:30 PM   #41
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Skyfall is every bit as absurd. The difference is at least Purvis and Wade possess a little aptitude for comedic timing. DAD had punch. Skyfall had none.
This. The goal is to humiliate and kill M, but the plan is to get captured, rely on Q's stupidity and break out on the day she's testifying? Really? Just do what Bond did several times, sneak into her house... This WAS supposed to be a gritty realistic film, yeah?

Goldfinger's plan was the easiest way to achieve his insane goal. This guy.... an easy goal... so he made it that much harder for himself?

Bad, bad, bad writing.



ETA: Also, the first act of DAD is probably the best-written 30 minutes of Bond-film in the last 30 years. It really didn't go downhill until Berry appeared onscreen.
It's sort of like The World is Not Enough... Not a bad Bond movie until Denise Richards shows up.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:37 PM   #42
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm a hardcore Bond fan and thought Skyfall had one of the best screenplays of the series.
Also speaking as a hardcore Bond fan, I disagree.
I need to rewatch Skyfall but my rankings tend to go...

Casino Royale
Goldeneye
Skyfall
Tommorow Never Dies

I don't have a 5th favourite though probably one of the Dalton movies might squeeze into it.
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Old July 13 2013, 05:43 PM   #43
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

They've all been pretty stupid since they stopped using (or sticking to) Fleming plots when Moore signed up - I still think the best Moore film is For Your Eyes Only and they managed to mess with that.

Skyfall was no exception...
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Old July 13 2013, 06:19 PM   #44
tighr
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
They've all been pretty stupid since they stopped using (or sticking to) Fleming plots when Moore signed up - I still think the best Moore film is For Your Eyes Only and they managed to mess with that.
I enjoyed Fleming's Live and Let Die, and would have liked seeing that book on film. Instead, we got the borderline racist blaxploitation failure with Yaphet Kotto. At least Jane Seymour was hot.
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Old July 13 2013, 06:36 PM   #45
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Re: Daniel Craig and Sam Mendes confirmed for Bond 24

The Man With The Golden Gun is the only shit Moore film, and even that has some terrific moments.
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