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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 8 2015, 02:10 PM   #1
xvicente
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Kirk the Useless

I rewatched pasrts of ST2009 yesterday. After warping from Earth to Vulcan:

Pike said "you're not supposed to be here anyway" <- man, was he right.

Kirk space jumps on top of the "drill" aaaaand....

does **nothing**:

1) Sulu kills both Romulans (saving the mission and Kirks's hide);
2) Sulu falls from the platform w/o a parachute, Kirk jumps after him and loses his parachute; (Chekov has to save them)
3) After beaming, Sulu mutters "thanks" (Should be "thanks for nothing, asshole")
4) Kirk tells Spock he's crazy and he can't beam down (why? Kirk knows nothing about the blackhole and stuff). Spock beams down and in 2 minutes saves everything and everyone that could be saved.

The green blooded hobgoblin was right ejecting him from the Enterprise.

Also, Kirk the Virgin:

1) Hit on Uhura, got a fight instead -- and lost.
2) Threw a stupid hello to a cadet in Starfleet, got ignored;
3) Threw a stupid hello to a nurse on the Enterprise, got ignored;
4) Green Girl seemed to like him enough, but he blew it.
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Old April 8 2015, 03:31 PM   #2
Cyke101
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Sulu was having trouble fighting one Romulan. Having Kirk relieve some pressure by fighting a second one probably made a difference. Besides, Pike's away team consisted of two fighters and an explosives expert (Chief Olsen, who, if he was commissioned, would probably be the leader of the away team).

----

Secondly, about the women, was Kirk *supposed* to succeed with each one of those women? Women can shoot Kirk down and not have it be a strike against his raging masculinity (y'know, just like in real life). Plus, it's something of an exaggeration that TOS Kirk dated women all over the galaxy; sure, his love life was the most eventful on the ship, but nothing that makes him a pelvic sorceror.
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Old April 8 2015, 03:42 PM   #3
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Well its a good thing that Kirk didn't have any other scenes of derring-do than the ones mentioned in the OP, or else the idea that he was "useless" could be considered rather silly.
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Old April 8 2015, 03:45 PM   #4
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Re: Kirk the Useless



I'll take a couple then others can pick the rest of this non-sense apart,

xvicente wrote: View Post
4) Kirk tells Spock he's crazy and he can't beam down (why? Kirk knows nothing about the blackhole and stuff). Spock beams down and in 2 minutes saves everything and everyone that could be saved.
It wasn't a scientific analysis from Kirk, it was Kirk's opinion based on the planet coming apart.

The green blooded hobgoblin was right ejecting him from the Enterprise.
Spock was wrong. It he takes the Enterprise to meet up with the fleet in the Laurentian system, then Earth is toast.

Also, Kirk the Virgin:

1) Hit on Uhura, got a fight instead -- and lost.
2) Threw a stupid hello to a cadet in Starfleet, got ignored;
3) Threw a stupid hello to a nurse on the Enterprise, got ignored;
4) Green Girl seemed to like him enough, but he blew it.
Most guys strike out far more often than they succeed.
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Old April 8 2015, 04:05 PM   #5
xvicente
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Re: Kirk the Useless

1) Sulu kills both Romulans (saving the mission and Kirks's hide);
On second thought, although the drill was disabled, Kirk and Sulu (and poor redspacesuit Olsen) might as well had stayed on the Enterprise drinking lemonade. Their actions thwarted Nero and helped Vulcan exactly zero, zip, zilch, nada. Nothing. At all.
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Old April 8 2015, 04:09 PM   #6
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
(Chief Olsen, who, if he was commissioned, would probably be the leader of the away team).
I've always been under the impression that Olsen was the "chef" of Engineering...hence the vacancy when Scotty came on board.
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Old April 8 2015, 04:33 PM   #7
fireproof78
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Re: Kirk the Useless

xvicente wrote: View Post
1) Sulu kills both Romulans (saving the mission and Kirks's hide);
On second thought, although the drill was disabled, Kirk and Sulu (and poor redspacesuit Olsen) might as well had stayed on the Enterprise drinking lemonade. Their actions thwarted Nero and helped Vulcan exactly zero, zip, zilch, nada. Nothing. At all.
I'm curious to here what you think they should have done?
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Old April 8 2015, 04:53 PM   #8
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Squiggy wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
(Chief Olsen, who, if he was commissioned, would probably be the leader of the away team).
I've always been under the impression that Olsen was the "chef" of Engineering...hence the vacancy when Scotty came on board.
Yes he was, but the two roles don't have to be mutually exclusive. His death left the opening for Scotty, but he was also the one with the explosives, implying that was his role for the mission. Plus he'd probably have seniority (again, assuming commission) since Sulu was fresh and Kirk was still a cadet.

Coincidentally, Scotty Prime blew up a jail cell wall. So engineers with explosives aren't unheard of.

fireproof78 wrote: View Post
xvicente wrote: View Post
1) Sulu kills both Romulans (saving the mission and Kirks's hide);
On second thought, although the drill was disabled, Kirk and Sulu (and poor redspacesuit Olsen) might as well had stayed on the Enterprise drinking lemonade. Their actions thwarted Nero and helped Vulcan exactly zero, zip, zilch, nada. Nothing. At all.
I'm curious to here what you think they should have done?
It's almost like Monday-morning quarterbacking.
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Old April 8 2015, 06:09 PM   #9
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Kirk is easily more influential upon the final resolution of Star Trek 2009 than Indiana Jones is on the climax of Raiders Of The Lost Ark.
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Old April 8 2015, 06:46 PM   #10
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Re: Kirk the Useless

xvicente wrote: View Post
I rewatched pasrts of ST2009 yesterday. After warping from Earth to Vulcan:

Pike said "you're not supposed to be here anyway" <- man, was he right.

Kirk space jumps on top of the "drill" aaaaand....

does **nothing**:

1) Sulu kills both Romulans (saving the mission and Kirks's hide);
2) Sulu falls from the platform w/o a parachute, Kirk jumps after him and loses his parachute; (Chekov has to save them)
3) After beaming, Sulu mutters "thanks" (Should be "thanks for nothing, asshole")
4) Kirk tells Spock he's crazy and he can't beam down (why? Kirk knows nothing about the blackhole and stuff). Spock beams down and in 2 minutes saves everything and everyone that could be saved.

The green blooded hobgoblin was right ejecting him from the Enterprise.

Also, Kirk the Virgin:

1) Hit on Uhura, got a fight instead -- and lost.
2) Threw a stupid hello to a cadet in Starfleet, got ignored;
3) Threw a stupid hello to a nurse on the Enterprise, got ignored;
4) Green Girl seemed to like him enough, but he blew it.
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be serious or not. With the drill scene, it's about giving everyone something heroic to do in the story. Kirk can't be the only one saving everyone/thing. At the same time, Kirk's bravery and self-sacrifice shows when he does risk his life to save Sulu.

Now, if it had been Sulu and Chekov who at the end of the movie went over to the Narada, saved Pike, and defeated Nero, you may have a point about the usefulness of Kirk.

As far as Kirk striking out a lot with the women goes, even a .300 batting average would probably put him in the lovers hall of fame. His constant flirting reminded me of Hawkeye Pierce in "M*A*S*H" or Sam Malone in "Cheers".
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Old April 8 2015, 06:54 PM   #11
Iamnotspock
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Squiggy wrote: View Post
I've always been under the impression that Olsen was the "chef" of Engineering...hence the vacancy when Scotty came on board.
Yes, Scotty's haggis is to die for, and much more popular among the Engineering staff than Olsen's apple pies.
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Old April 8 2015, 07:27 PM   #12
M'Sharak
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Re: Kirk the Useless

xvicente wrote: View Post
I rewatched pasrts of ST2009 yesterday. After warping from Earth to Vulcan:

Pike said "you're not supposed to be here anyway" <- man, was he right.

Kirk space jumps on top of the "drill" aaaaand....

does **nothing**:
Nothing except carry out the mission he was assigned:
PIKE: Without transporters, we can't beam off the ship, we can't assist Vulcan, we can't do our job. Mister Kirk, Mister Sulu, Engineer Olson, will space-jump from the shuttle. You will land on that machine they lowered into the atmosphere that's scrambling our gear. You'll get inside. You'll disable it, then you'll beam back to the ship.
... plus contend with a few obstacles thereto (among which: large Romulan roughnecks, missing gung-ho chief engineer, missing explosives incinerated along with said engineer)

Or were those not the parts you rewatched?
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Old April 8 2015, 08:09 PM   #13
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Indeed, there was no awareness that stopping the drill within X minutes would be crucial for saving Vulcan. If the heroes knew that, they could simply have destroyed the drill outright - the phasers of the Enterprise could have done that easily enough, and even those of a small craft like Spock's little vessel and thus perhaps those of Pike's shuttle would have sufficed. Or Pike could have rammed the drill.

Sure, that would cost all the heroes their lives, as Nero would then kill them all. But it would be worth it. If they knew.

However, the OP would have done well to extend the analysis to the second round, too: it's Spock who who captures the red matter, destroys the drill and then lures away Nero's ship. He does that after beaming aboard the ship using a transporter modification designed by himself; the silly plot of hiding inside Titan's atmosphere doesn't feature there at all. (Heck, Spock might even have beamed to the Narada all the way from Laurentius!)

And Sulu provides the firecover that allows Spock to ultimately destroy Nero's ship.

Yet Kirk saves Captain Pike who is soon seen in Vice Admiral braid. Obviously, that's the smart move if Kirk himself wants to be promoted to Captain...

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Old April 8 2015, 08:29 PM   #14
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Franklin wrote: View Post

As far as Kirk striking out a lot with the women goes, even a .300 batting average would probably put him in the lovers hall of fame. His constant flirting reminded me of Hawkeye Pierce in "M*A*S*H" or Sam Malone in "Cheers".
Both of which struck out quite a bit, IIRC.
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Old April 8 2015, 09:08 PM   #15
urbandefault
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Re: Kirk the Useless

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Sulu was having trouble fighting one Romulan. Having Kirk relieve some pressure by fighting a second one probably made a difference. Besides, Pike's away team consisted of two fighters and an explosives expert (Chief Olsen, who, if he was commissioned, would probably be the leader of the away team).
Kirk was first officer by that time. I'm assuming that trumped Olsen's seniority.

Pike: Kirk, I'm promoting you to First Officer.
Kirk: What?
Spock: Captain. Please, I apologize. The complexities of human pranks escape me.
Pike: This is not a prank, Spock. And I'm not Captain, you are.
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