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Old July 11 2013, 06:00 PM   #256
Noname Given
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Whitepaper wrote: View Post
Personally for me the reaction that comes out is that Card is being given too much visibility about this. All this boycott talk is doing is making me curious about the movie..and about reading more of card's books beyond ender's game(which I've read and liked).
And that's why the studio is behind it as:

1) It leads to free publicity for the film.

2) Since even current polls indicate a approximately 60%-40% split in the acceptance of gay marriage; the studio realizes that the 40% is a large enough audience to appeal to; and some of the %60 may come along too.

This kind of 'uproar' almost always translates into a boost at the box office no matter what the underlying issue is.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:07 PM   #257
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Wood directed X-Men Origins: Wolverine. If that didn't kill his career, he might be bullet proof.
Adamantium bullet proof.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:12 PM   #258
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yoda wrote: View Post
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Yoda wrote: View Post
I could very well be wrong, but I was under the impression that your politics aren't protected from discrimination in the workplace in the way your gender or religion are. Also, I'd hardly call that an integral part of capitalism. Regardless, I'm not trying to make any points about the legalities of the situations. Just the similarities in attitudes where people feel the need to hurt someone's bottom line when they don't like what they say.
Political views, no they're not protected, but, they also are not firable offenses, you have to have an actual justified reason for firing someone. A bumper sticker is not such a legitimate reason.
We're both in California, an at-will state, which as I understand it means you don't need cause to fire someone.
California Labor Code:

1101. No employer shall make, adopt, or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy: (a) Forbidding or preventing employees from engaging or participating in politics or from becoming candidates for public office. (b) Controlling or directing, or tending to control or direct the political activities or affiliations of employees.

1102. No employer shall coerce or influence or attempt to coerce or influence his employees through or by means of threat of discharge or loss of employment to adopt or follow or refrain from adopting or following any particular course or line of political action or political activity.


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...file=1101-1106
Now, very few states have similar statutes, so you can still be fired for political affiliation in most of the country, but you were specifically talking about California.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:23 PM   #259
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

^Interesting, I stand corrected.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:55 PM   #260
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Didn't know this but must say that I don't care.
Ok... that's cool.


The NOM was formed specifically to fund the passing of Prop 8 in California, where I live. I voted against Prop 8, which is the proper political response to people who suport legislation you disagree with.
Why is not buying a product improper? Later you say it's ok for me not to see the movie, but, why is NOT purchasing something "improper"?


Prop 8, in case you missed it, is dead.
Yeah, I know.


The National Organization for Marriage will probably persue other legislation, which will likewise be struck down as unconstitutional should any of it pass. Discrimination is unconstitutional in this country and it is plain, especially after the recent SCOTUS decisions that, though it may take some time, laws discriminating against gays are not going to stand.
And they will continue to slow it down... why should I help them by, indirectly, giving money to that organization?


Orson Scott Card is a minor author in the grand scheme of things, who mostly rants his hate speech on his blog. Don't like his hate speech? Don't read his blog. Don't like his political views? Vote the other way, just as I did on Prop 8, and give your money to groups that support the laws you want to see enacted, which is your right, as well as his.
Right. And I do. Just like I don't give money to organizations I don't want to support.

More power to anyone who wants to boycott the movie and Card's books to protest supporters of anti-gay legislation.
But I'd find a discussion of why so many people find Ender's Game's twisted morality compelling to be far more interesting.

Well. You're free to start one.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:58 PM   #261
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

New Tagline for the movie: "If you like Chick-fil-A, you'll love this film!"
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Old July 11 2013, 07:14 PM   #262
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yoda wrote: View Post
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Yoda wrote: View Post
I could very well be wrong, but I was under the impression that your politics aren't protected from discrimination in the workplace in the way your gender or religion are. Also, I'd hardly call that an integral part of capitalism. Regardless, I'm not trying to make any points about the legalities of the situations. Just the similarities in attitudes where people feel the need to hurt someone's bottom line when they don't like what they say.
Political views, no they're not protected, but, they also are not firable offenses, you have to have an actual justified reason for firing someone. A bumper sticker is not such a legitimate reason.
We're both in California, an at-will state, which as I understand it means you don't need cause to fire someone.
HR Departments are skittish. You try to fire someone for a bumper sticker, they're going to protest. And, with all the protected classes, Gay, old, religious, black, brown, disabled, female, etc, there's very few people who don't fall under at least one protected class, so, any reasonably sized company, wether "at will" or not, is not going to fire for no legitimate reason. But, Yea, a very small business without an HR person/department may pull that.
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Old July 11 2013, 07:22 PM   #263
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Yoda wrote: View Post
We're both in California, an at-will state, which as I understand it means you don't need cause to fire someone.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be funny, but are you really saying that in California you can just fire someone for no reason ?
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Old July 11 2013, 07:22 PM   #264
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

I enjoyed reading Ender's Game a long time ago. Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide less so. I plan to see the film.

Card's political views simply don't relate to the story he wrote or the film's interpretation. And my decision to see the film simply means I liked the book, not that I share any or all of his political views.

Sure, the argument can be made that my money will, in some meager, minuscule way finance his anti-gay agenda, but it will also finance the guy who writes stories that I do like. Nor do I for one minute assume that the guy is so limited in mindset that he's only capable of writing mediocre to great stories and funding anti-gay crusades. I bet if I dug into his blogs I'd find plenty that's objectionable and other stuff that I'd applaud. So where do I draw the line?

In this case, I draw the line where I mentioned above. I liked this story and I'm happy to toss a few coins his way for it. If he comes out with a story that's anti-gay, I'll pass on that and let his finances help inform his opinions.
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Old July 11 2013, 07:49 PM   #265
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

I like when people spends years being loathesome (and OSC had said some really ugly things about gays) and then hide behind "political opinion".

If somebody earnestly opposed marriage between blacks and whites (and at one time people used word for word the same arguments they use now), nobody would be like "oh it's just a political opinion."
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Old July 11 2013, 08:10 PM   #266
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Didn't know this but must say that I don't care. The NOM was formed specifically to fund the passing of Prop 8 in California, where I live. I voted against Prop 8, which is the proper political response to people who suport legislation you disagree with. Prop 8, in case you missed it, is dead. The National Organization for Marriage will probably persue other legislation, which will likewise be struck down as unconstitutional should any of it pass. Discrimination is unconstitutional in this country and it is plain, especially after the recent SCOTUS decisions that, though it may take some time, laws discriminating against gays are not going to stand.

Orson Scott Card is a minor author in the grand scheme of things, who mostly rants his hate speech on his blog. Don't like his hate speech? Don't read his blog. Don't like his political views? Vote the other way, just as I did on Prop 8, and give your money to groups that support the laws you want to see enacted, which is your right, as well as his.

More power to anyone who wants to boycott the movie and Card's books to protest supporters of anti-gay legislation. But I'd find a discussion of why so many people find Ender's Game's twisted morality compelling to be far more interesting.
Well this was a needlessly condescending post. If you want to talk about Ender's Game being morally corrupt then you're free to start such a topic. Lecturing all of us on how we should not be talking about the topic of this very thread, and how we should act in regards to our politics, is remarkably unhelpful at best.
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Old July 11 2013, 08:14 PM   #267
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

Why is not buying a product improper? Later you say it's ok for me not to see the movie, but, why is NOT purchasing something "improper"?
I said that voting is a proper political response. I never said not purchasing something was "improper". They are not mutually exclusive options. I think political action is a much more effective response than boycotting the work of a minor artist with anti-gay views, but there's nothing wrong with boycotting.

Well. You're free to start one.
I have before. What's interesting about this discussion is that it doesn't seem to look at Ender's Game itself and how it is constructed according to Card's views. The story basically says that as long as you suffer over doing violence, and your intentions were good, you can remain morally pure while doing something as extreme as eradicating an entire race.

Move that over to the real world for a second - it's the same morality that informed the Spanish Inquisition and that informs Card's anti-gay views. As long as you love the sinner and hate the sin, and it causes you pain rather than gives you pleasure you can do horrible things and remain morally pure. Yet, thousands of sci-fi fans love and adore Ender's Game and can sidestep this issue by saying that the story itself is not anti-gay. It's not explicilty anti-gay, but it certainly lives in a moral world where you can easily situate anti-gay action (or action against any other group of "sinners"), even to the point of violence, and still believe that you are morally pure. So, to me, Card is not the scary thing per se, but the many people who love Ender's Game without apparently looking critically at the dangerous things that it is saying.
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Old July 11 2013, 08:21 PM   #268
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

I was actually going to go see it, but now I think I won't. Uncle Orson should have just kept his moth shut.

Oh wait...
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Old July 11 2013, 08:25 PM   #269
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Yoda wrote: View Post
We're both in California, an at-will state, which as I understand it means you don't need cause to fire someone.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be funny, but are you really saying that in California you can just fire someone for no reason ?
In Florida you can be fired with no reason given, not sure if that's true for CA.

Also, who is this Hector and why is everyone heckling him?
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Old July 11 2013, 08:30 PM   #270
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Re: Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post

I said that voting is a proper political response. I never said not purchasing something was "improper". They are not mutually exclusive options. I think political action is a much more effective response than boycotting the work of a minor artist with anti-gay views, but there's nothing wrong with boycotting.
So, it's a proper response? Not paying to see the movie?


Well. You're free to start one.
I have before. What's interesting about this discussion is that it doesn't seem to look at Ender's Game itself and how it is constructed according to Card's views.
Because, as it has been stated over and over, it's not about the NOVEL. I'm choosing to not see it because of Card's political activism. As others have also said. Over and over.


The story basically says that as long as you suffer over doing violence, and your intentions were good, you can remain morally pure while doing something as extreme as eradicating an entire race.

Move that over to the real world for a second - it's the same morality that informed the Spanish Inquisition and that informs Card's anti-gay views. As long as you love the sinner and hate the sin, and it causes you pain rather than gives you pleasure you can do horrible things and remain morally pure. Yet, thousands of sci-fi fans love and adore Ender's Game and can sidestep this issue by saying that the story itself is not anti-gay. It's not explicilty anti-gay, but it certainly lives in a moral world where you can easily situate anti-gay action (or action against any other group of "sinners"), even to the point of violence, and still believe that you are morally pure. So, to me, Card is not the scary thing per se, but the many people who love Ender's Game without apparently looking critically at the dangerous things that it is saying.

This sounds like a great beginning to a thread talking about the NOVEL.
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