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Old July 11 2013, 12:30 AM   #61
marksound
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Dream wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Since I haven't seen SR since in was in theaters in 2006 I ordered a copy today. [I]For five bucks.
I once saw Superman Returns being sold for five bucks in the bargain bin, picked it up for a few moments then put it back in the bin when I realized that was still too much to pay for that movie.
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Old July 11 2013, 01:02 AM   #62
Set Harth
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

That reminds me of when I told a friend I got it for $1.50.

He was like, "I hope you mean they paid you $1.50 to take it."

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Old July 11 2013, 01:09 AM   #63
Agent Richard07
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Mine came with the anthology. Had to buy Supergirl separately.
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Old July 11 2013, 01:11 AM   #64
Set Harth
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Mine came with the anthology.
Is that the version with the deleted scenes?
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Old July 11 2013, 01:15 AM   #65
Agent Richard07
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

^ There are additional scenes in the bonus features, but I haven't watched them yet.
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Old July 11 2013, 01:36 AM   #66
Gojira
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Am I the only one that thought Spacey was terrible as Luthor? I particularly cringed where he gets Lois to say to Superman will save us then he yells WRONG!!!
I loved that scene! Spacey was great as Luthor, my favorite by far. Hackman played him too much like acorn-ball. I like the seriousness Spacey gave the role.
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Old July 11 2013, 01:44 AM   #67
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Posey as Lois would've been pretty great.
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Old July 11 2013, 01:46 AM   #68
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

There's NOTHING wrong with the Donner films other than people and fanboys couldn't get it (a few critics did get it, and some moviegoers like myself did) and wanted action all of the time.
The critics were kind to the Donner films as I remember. I loved them myself, as did most of my friends. But then again we weren't a group of internet fanboys (internet? what's the internet?) but I remember my parents and older siblings' friends loving the Donner films as did most of their contemporaries. Of course I was a teenaged girl who didn't hang with "fanboys." Maybe the fanboys were there not appreciating Donner's more sentimental vision of Superman.

As an adult rewatching them, (and not a teenaged girl overwhelmed by Chris Reeve's obvious charms) I can appreciate in retrospect how good they were and how much more I appreciate heartfelt characters than overwhelming frenetic CGI battles.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:58 AM   #69
davejames
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And I don't think a continuation was the right approach here. Donner's Superman was a movie made in the Bronze Age of comics with Silver Age sensibilities. In the interim, Superman in comics had been radically transformed, with new and influential ideas introduced to the mythos, such as Clark as the real person -- and Lois's love interest -- rather than Superman, or Luthor as a ruthless corporate magnate. Those new ideas were adopted by numerous screen adaptations of Superman, from Lois & Clark to S:TAS to Smallville. They became key aspects of the mythos. So for Singer to go back a quarter-century and try to resurrect a movie built around the pre-Crisis version of Superman felt backward and atavistic compared to what other screen adaptations had been doing for many years. It was ignoring a whole generation of the franchise's evolution, decades' worth of new ideas. And I found that a missed opportunity.
I agree Singer didn't modernize things for SR as much as he probably should have, but I still thought the style and tone were radically different enough from the Donner movies to still make it feel like it's own, unique thing.

And that somber tone and art deco design aesthetic are what stand out to me the most about SR. Which is why I'm always surprised when all others can seem to focus on are the homages and vague story similarities. To me those were just minor background things.

Heck, if anything I'd say SR was more nostalgic for the stylized, golden-age Fleischer Superman than the Donner one. It's all over the look and design of the movie-- even more so than the few Donner elements we see.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:13 AM   #70
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

I don't see portraying Luthor as a land-obsessed con man accompanied by a smattering of dimwitted henchmen as a minor background thing. It's probably the least impressive version of Lex Luthor we've ever had. Both the brilliant criminal scientist and the ruthless corporate magnate (and the DC Animated Universe version, who was a mix of both) were more interesting than the Donner/Singer version of Luthor. Hackman made him funny to watch, but man, what a lame interpretation of the character.

If you ask me, the only real Lex Luthor we've ever gotten in a live-action Superman movie was Robert Vaughn in Superman III. Sure, his character was named Ross Webster, but he was a criminal who controlled a vast corporation and used its resources to support grandiose schemes that increased his wealth and/or combatted Superman. He was a prototype for the businessman Luthor we got a few years later in the post-Crisis reboot. And he was a more credible villain than Hackman's Luthor ever managed to be.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:48 AM   #71
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And he was a more credible villain than Hackman's Luthor ever managed to be.
I don't know.
Almost successfully killing Superman (if not for Tessmacher jumping in to save him) and successfully landing a missile that kills Superman's love interest have to give him SOME credit as a worthy opponent.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:31 AM   #72
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
There's NOTHING wrong with the Donner films other than people and fanboys couldn't get it (a few critics did get it, and some moviegoers like myself did) and wanted action all of the time.
The critics were kind to the Donner films as I remember. I loved them myself, as did most of my friends. But then again we weren't a group of internet fanboys (internet? what's the internet?) but I remember my parents and older siblings' friends loving the Donner films as did most of their contemporaries. Of course I was a teenaged girl who didn't hang with "fanboys." Maybe the fanboys were there not appreciating Donner's more sentimental vision of Superman.

As an adult rewatching them, (and not a teenaged girl overwhelmed by Chris Reeve's obvious charms) I can appreciate in retrospect how good they were and how much more I appreciate heartfelt characters than overwhelming frenetic CGI battles.
I was referring to the fanboys and their hatred of Superman Returns more than anything else, but yeah, I see what you're saying.

BTW, the idea that Superman Returns was a box-office failure is bogus and has been disproved: You're Wrong: 20 Common Box Office Misconceptions (scroll down to the section marked 'Famous Flops Which Did Not'.) If anything, the reason it didn't 'make money' was due to Hollywood accounting.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't see portraying Luthor as a land-obsessed con man accompanied by a smattering of dimwitted henchmen as a minor background thing. It's probably the least impressive version of Lex Luthor we've ever had. Both the brilliant criminal scientist and the ruthless corporate magnate (and the DC Animated Universe version, who was a mix of both) were more interesting than the Donner/Singer version of Luthor. Hackman made him funny to watch, but man, what a lame interpretation of the character.

If you ask me, the only real Lex Luthor we've ever gotten in a live-action Superman movie was Robert Vaughn in Superman III. Sure, his character was named Ross Webster, but he was a criminal who controlled a vast corporation and used its resources to support grandiose schemes that increased his wealth and/or combated Superman. He was a prototype for the businessman Luthor we got a few years later in the post-Crisis reboot. And he was a more credible villain than Hackman's Luthor ever managed to be.
I'll agree with you about Donner's Luthor, who could be brought down by Napoleon Solo & Illya Kuryakin, but Singer's Luthor was a combination of Donner's version and the version in the recent comic books/DCAU TV shows, and a much cunning man (swindling a rich old lady of her fortune and using it to accomplish what he did was a masterstroke, as well as keeping his head down and out of sight until she died and he was able to use her fortune to accomplish what happened in the rest of the film, as well as the feint staged to keep Superman from finding out about the robbery of the kryptonite by having Kitty almost crash her car.) That version's just as great as the ones you've mentioned and like.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; July 11 2013 at 05:56 AM.
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Old July 11 2013, 06:06 AM   #73
AllStarEntprise
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

It's sad that even the studio admitted Superman Returns didn't live up to their expectations either. They didn't even bother to try and salavage the film with a sequel

From Jeff Robinov 2008
"Superman Returns didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to. It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned. Had Superman worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009. Now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."

Really what else could we expect from SR?
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Old July 11 2013, 07:06 AM   #74
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

I loved Spacey as Luthor, my main reason for liking the movie...
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Old July 11 2013, 09:35 AM   #75
Pingfah
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Re: Why The Hate For Superman Returns?

Spacey was excellent as Luther, but was a real estate scam honestly the most dastardly idea they could come up with for him?

Who the fuck would want to live on craggy island anyway? How are you supposed to build a house on that thing? It had 20ft high shards of sharp rock sticking out of the ground everywhere. It was the least attractive bit of real estate i've ever clapped eyes on.
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