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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 10 2013, 07:39 PM   #91
wjaspers
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

BillJ wrote: View Post
Tom wrote: View Post

Back on topic, as far as this version of TFF goes. CBS needs to figure if this version would be worth it to package, market and sell it. IMO, it stands a better chance of selling than some of the repackaging of the same Star Trek films that they are always doing ( "the all new blue package of ST:TFF complete with a Sybok refrigerator magnet!"..yawn..lol)
I think this will serve more as a "proof of concept" than the actual product. If CBS sees value in the changes then they will then hand it off to a company to make changes in concert with Shatner.

I seriously doubt a fan-edit will ever be released as an official product.
Finally someone is getting the picture why this cut was made.
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Old July 10 2013, 07:42 PM   #92
Grant
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

trevanian wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Nicholas Meyer hand picked the footage that went into the ABC-TV cut in 1985. I remember reading an article at the time where he commented that he "got to revisit some of the battles he had lost with the studio"
He even picked the alternate turbo-lift Kirk/Saavik version because he thought it played better in the 4x3 format.
Okay, but I was sure I read an old "Starlog" of the day where it was said he was uninvolved.

The article you linked to says his quote was in "Cinefantastique" in 1992.
You guys are talking at cross purposes. Meyer in CFQ was discussing what he did for the ABC cut, which is what decades later was repurposed into the alleged director's cut dvd. Neither the ABC nor DVD are the DC, which hasn't been seen since before TWOK debuted in June 82.




In 1982 Meyer turned in his cut.
It was about 119 minutes.
It included the alternate version of the the Kirk/David fight and a few scenes after that, that were follow-ups to that.
The studio hated that version of the fight/father-son revelation and made him reshoot it to what we we have now.
He then turned in a 115/116 cut
The studio then asked him to trim a few more minutes.
He then reluctantly cut the 3 1/2 minutes we now have seen in the 'Director's cut' 2-disc DVD.
They previewed the movie in Kansas city in early May 1982 and Bennett reports the audience loved the movie until Spock's death.
Then without Meyer's involvement they shot the coffin on Genesis scene.
When ABC went to do their TV premiere in 1985 they somehow got hooked up with Meyer and in the interview i read, in a genre magazine at the time, the ABC guy noted how Meyer all the bits they needed ready to go and was surprised at that.
Meyer had simply set aside the 3 minutes of so from his 116 minute cut and re-inserted them. Voila--his 'director's cut'---which was his preferred cut AFTER they made him reshoot the Kirk/David fight and BEFORE they added the Spock coffin on Genesis.
That's what Meyer is referring to in the '1992' article/interview (actually the December 1991 issue of Cinafantastique.)
He was commenting on after all the debate about the exact cut in 1982---nobody cared in 1985 what he added back in.

There NEVER was a '16 minute longer' original director's cut that an earlier poster referred to.

In reality, the movie was incredibly time crunched--principal photagraphy was finishing in early Feb 1982 for a June 4 wide release!!

Meyer wanted James Horner to score the movie but had no real cut to show him.
He then gave Horner a 127 minute 'rough assembly' of the movie to use as a reference.
That included virtually everything that they had shot-- strung together with no taking into account of pace or continuity or flow.
It was simply a reference for Horner to see to get ideas for all the major themes/beats of the film.
That may be the '127 (or 129) minute cut that some people think was out there. It was never intended as a real cut of any sort.

Last summer at the UCLA film school I watched a B/W 'workprint' of the movie that was fairly close to that 127 minute cut.

It begins at the simulator scene and ends at the point where spock leaves his chair to repair the main engines. It ends there presumably because back in 1982 they didn't want whoever was getting the workprint to know the ending. It contains virtually every thing in the script of the movie that I have owned since the mid 80s and that is available to read on the internet at many sites.

It has the Saavik romulan heritage mention in the corridor, an even longer scene concerning the glasses, Chekov's original log entry as 'duty officer', CHEKOV SEEING THE CHILD IN THE WINDOW OF THE CARGO CARRIER EXACTLY AS SCRIPTED!!!, Terrell finding the baby inside the cargo carrier, Khan mentioning Marla by name in his tirade, Kyle and Beach about to launch a rescue until Terrell (controlled) tricks them into beaming 'guests' aboard, SULU's promotion, the first version of the Kirk/David fight and all the follow up references and dozens of other bits.

Let me say this version is not a proper version of the movie, it has plenty of needless stuff and the flow is very slow even for a 1982 movie. Meyer would never have wanted the movie released ion that way.

Of course there are several small bits i wish they had left in, but overall most of the cuts were well-chosen.

So in closing to this over-long post...........

Meyer's true 'director's cut' would in reality have been with the original version of the Kirk/David fight/revelation and without the Spock coffin on genesis.

The director's cut on DVD is the closest we'll likely ever get to his preferred version.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:03 AM   #93
trevanian
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

129 minutes is the number that was bandied about rather often post-release, as was the fact of Bennett cutting that version down after the Kansas test.

It's entirely possible that was a typo that got repeated, and that it was in fact 119 minutes, or that it WOULD have been 129 if you added the credits and the epilog -- those numbers certainly jive better with the relatively little extra material that has surfaced, all of which you reference above.

As near as I can tell, except for the new epilog, ILM's work was finished in April (it had to be, since they had to start printing reels WAY early in order to have 70mm prints done in time for June), so the runtime shouldn't have changed with respect to VFX shots, since the timings for the 'scene missing' cards would have matched to the projected VFX.

My understanding was that the reshoots did not take place long after the end of principal; if this is not correct (and your post certainly makes this inference), can you enhance on that end of things? Since he cut at night during shooting, the rough cut should have emerged within a couple weeks after the end of principal photography. And when you say the studio, are you referring to Bennett or somebody higher up?

The cut stuff to me sounds as it always has, like a mix of stuff that would have dragged with other stuff that would have helped and improved the film (and yeah, a longer version of a movie CAN feel shorter - apparently GODFATHER 2 tested with 45min cut and had walkouts galore from boredom.) I'd definitely want to see this cut for myself before commenting further.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:07 AM   #94
Sran
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
"Cheeky" is a nice way of putting it. I've always thought it was childish, bitchy and unprofessional.
Well, Diane Carey has always found ways to take shots at anyone or anything that contradicts her view of the Trek universe. Probably why she hasn't written anything of consequence in years. No one will deal with her BS.

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Old July 11 2013, 03:19 AM   #95
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Well, the UCLA film and television archive has it. I'm not sure what their policy is for non-students -- you may have to pay -- but it can certainly be viewed in their instructional media lab on campus.

From looking at the Meyer papers, I have a couple of (seemingly contradictory) documents related to the reshoots.

The first is a shooting schedule for days 54-57 of principal photography (scenes marked as either ADDED or RETAKES), set for January 26-29, 1982. I'm not 100% sure what these scenes are, since the descriptions (i.e. "Saavik lets hair down. Attacks, rapes David.") are nothing but misdirection.

The second is a pair of script pages titled 'STAR TREK II -- RETAKES 3/23/82.' These include several scenes, including the revised Kirk/David fistfight.
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Old July 11 2013, 03:52 AM   #96
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Sran wrote: View Post
Well, Diane Carey has always found ways to take shots at anyone or anything that contradicts her view of the Trek universe. Probably why she hasn't written anything of consequence in years. No one will deal with her BS.
Off-topic. When Therin mentioned "DC," he meant D. C. Fontana, author of the novel Vulcan's Glory, not Diane Carey. Fontana is the one who inserted the line about Spock being the only son of Sarek in order to protest TFF.
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Old July 11 2013, 04:14 AM   #97
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

^Thanks!

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Old July 14 2013, 09:06 AM   #98
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Truthfully, I'd want The Motion Picture Director's Edition re-rendered for blu-ray before they release a Star Trek V Director's Edition.
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Old July 15 2013, 04:30 PM   #99
Kevman7987
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

SJK91 wrote: View Post
Truthfully, I'd want The Motion Picture Director's Edition re-rendered for blu-ray before they release a Star Trek V Director's Edition.
Same here. Isn't TMP the only "true" director's edition as Robert Wise was involved with the changes from release version to his original vision from the beginning?
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Old July 16 2013, 12:27 AM   #100
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
SJK91 wrote: View Post
Truthfully, I'd want The Motion Picture Director's Edition re-rendered for blu-ray before they release a Star Trek V Director's Edition.
Same here. Isn't TMP the only "true" director's edition as Robert Wise was involved with the changes from release version to his original vision from the beginning?
Well, 'involved' is relative. He signed off on it, and there are a few bits in there that he really did always want to change, but there are a few of us who think this is much more the cut of his collaborators than Wise himself. You can probably find very lengthy discussions on this over the past several years here.
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Old July 19 2013, 02:01 AM   #101
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

There are definitely some changes and cuts I think were not his idea. I also wonder if wise would've cut the special effects footage down any more than in the final Director's Cut.
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Old July 19 2013, 02:18 AM   #102
trevanian
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Interviews he did post-release, around 1980 or 81, suggest he'd've tightened the drydock scene by a minute and the vger flyover by about double that, which is a pretty substantial difference from the minimal cuts in the DE.

Still don't understand why he didn't cut the little space guy fleeing epsilon 9, which is one of the worst fx ever.
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Old July 19 2013, 02:27 AM   #103
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Yeah, but unlike the dry dock scene or V'Ger flyover, that scene would be WAY too short without that scene. Plus, the music would be butchered.

I say all this being a fan of TMP in ALL incarnations. I even made a point of buying the extended laserdisc.
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Old July 19 2013, 02:47 AM   #104
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

^But the music in that sequence is buried under the sound FX anyway, isn't it?
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Old July 19 2013, 03:20 AM   #105
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Re: Star trek final frontier directors cut finished

Yeah I guess you're right. My point stands more with the drydock scene. The music is fantastic, but that scene kinda loses its majesty when you've seen it so many times.

The music in the flyover is so similar you could cut the scene and just edit together the music, then synch it up. I would like to see someone attempt a 1980's style director's cut, applying some changes that might have been made if Wise was more involved.
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