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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 6 2013, 05:21 PM   #46
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
^Okay, lol.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Bill, I don't even have to click the link. Iron Man 3 came out 2 weeks before STID. It is not like they opened side-by-side. And again, if people want to see something, then they will.
And Fast & Furious 6 opened one week after. Star Trek 2009 faced off against X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Terminator Salvation and Angels & Demons. All three combined did less money than Iron Man 3.

Up didn't come out until three weeks after its release and was directed at a different audience and Transformers: The Revenge of the Fallen was six weeks later and Harry Potter was more than two months later.

Star Trek 2009 had three-weeks where it was competing against mid-range hits, Star Trek Into Darkness was sandwiched between two monster hits.
Which begs the question why wasn't it a "monster hit" by itself?
Because 450-500mil is likely Trek's ceiling sandwiched the way it was.

There is no doubt that JJ's 2009 film brought in a lot of new fans to the franchise and I am sure there is plenty of crossover between the new Trek audience and the audiences for Iron Man and F&F. But to the majority of those new fans Trek isn't as established as those other two franchises (even though it technically is, but previously catered to a smaller audience).

You take into account the really long time in between movies (long for a sequel to a summer tent pole) + the cost of going to the movies these days + three huge blockbusters with a crossover audience and I'd say they should be happy with the results they got.

I'm a movie nerd and I saw all three of them, but the majority of people I know are not, and they maybe see one or two movies during the summer due to cost.
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Old July 6 2013, 05:32 PM   #47
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Because 450-500mil is likely Trek's ceiling sandwiched the way it was.
This.

I think there are multiple elements are at play here. Into Darkness was competing with what was essentially a follow-up to The Avengers, which was a film that did two-billion dollars. Plus Star Trek may simply never be the monster box-office draw we think/want it to be. It may not have the impact on general audiences that it has on us. Then, thirty years after "Get a Life", I think Trek may still have a certain stigma attached to it.

Star Trek Into Darkness is neither a critical nor financial failure. I've yet to find anyone outside of the internet who saw it and didn't like it.
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Old July 6 2013, 06:33 PM   #48
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?

Khanon.
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Old July 6 2013, 10:56 PM   #49
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Heck, Roddenberry pretty much recycled much of the set-up of Phase II with TNG.
I was going to add that but "Phase II" was sitting around unproduced, and unknown to the general public. Can't let cool characters like Will Decker, Ilia, Xon (and Questor, of "The Questor Tapes" telemovie!) go to waste! Also recycled were the scripts for "Devil's Due" and "The Child".

As a newbie fan in 1979, I was amazed how many TOS and TAS episodes concerned Eden/Paradise/gods, so it was also amusing when Roddenberry slammed Shatner over his choices in ST V.

thumbtack wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
Khanon.
Just after the 2009 movie's release, fans on this board and elsewhere, latched onto Bob Orci's throwaway line about what they could do in future films, ie. that Khan's sleeper ship could even be shown being blown up by Klingons.

IIRC, most reactions were along the lines of "Yeah, this next film is 'Star Trek II' after all!", and "Kewl!", and "Do you think Quinto really wants his Spock to die already?" (And even, "Quinto's latest interview suggests he's 'done with Trek' after the second film, so the rumors are true!")

If the scriptwriters had ignored Khan completely, we'd probably still have the same small percentage of angry fans here complaining about the "missed opportunities" of not using Khan. Sigh.
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Old July 6 2013, 11:07 PM   #50
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

I heard someone whom I know prefers Wars over Trek say; That was good, I like it!
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Old July 7 2013, 12:37 AM   #51
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

A work colleague got taken to see STiD at an IMAX. The film they intended to see wasn't screening. She loved STiD so much she rented the 2009 film on DVD a few days later, then complained that it would have looked "so much better" on a bigger screen.
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Old July 7 2013, 01:22 AM   #52
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Into Darkness was competing with what was essentially a follow-up to The Avengers, which was a film that did two-billion dollars.
Wasn't it closer to 1.5?
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Old July 7 2013, 01:59 AM   #53
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

Set Harth wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Into Darkness was competing with what was essentially a follow-up to The Avengers, which was a film that did two-billion dollars.
Wasn't it closer to 1.5?
Right you are!
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Old July 7 2013, 02:06 AM   #54
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
For the same reason that other fans have to attack and/or dismiss any criticism of it. (I don't mean you, though, Bill. You're one of the even-handed posters around here.)
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Old July 7 2013, 02:24 AM   #55
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
For the same reason that other fans have to attack and/or dismiss any criticism of it. (I don't mean you, though, Bill. You're one of the even-handed posters around here.)
I used to be just as critical of everything Abrams did (it would literally send my blood pressure through the roof). Then I realized something, I was no longer having fun watching Star Trek. I had to re-evaluate why I was watching and if I wanted to keep watching going forward.

So I went back and started rewatching the various shows and realized that Abrams and Company weren't as far afield as I was convinced they were and damn the first movie was a fun ride (though flawed). I am able to enjoy each iteration for what it tried to be and what it is.

I'm a "Born-again Trekkie"!
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Old July 7 2013, 02:42 AM   #56
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Then I realized something, I was no longer having fun watching Star Trek. I had to re-evaluate why I was watching and if I wanted to keep watching going forward.
We had the same epiphany watching ST V. We'd heard all the rumours, had dutifully reported them in our newsletter's "special sealed section" and here they were, on opening night, coming true! We laughed like drains.

Similarly, I know some TNG resisters who finally got into it around about Season Three, but the bellyaching that TNG wasn't "real" Star Trek was quite hilarious and frustrating.

It seems that fandom forgives the "sins" of a new version of "Star Trek" every time the next new "Star Trek" comes along.
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Old July 7 2013, 02:56 AM   #57
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

It seems that fandom forgives the "sins" of a new version of "Star Trek" every time the next new "Star Trek" comes along.
Well, mine came along almost immediately after I saw the first J.J. Abrams film. I think its a fun movie but am lukewarm towards it because it does have many "plot difficulties".

But then I found that when I started rewatching the various shows, that most Star Trek has "plot difficulties".

Plus, I'm convinced that whether I like a particular Trek product or not that people watching it/buying tickets for it is good for the overall health of the franchise.
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Old July 7 2013, 03:26 AM   #58
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
For the same reason that other fans have to attack and/or dismiss any criticism of it. (I don't mean you, though, Bill. You're one of the even-handed posters around here.)
I used to be just as critical of everything Abrams did (it would literally send my blood pressure through the roof). Then I realized something, I was no longer having fun watching Star Trek. I had to re-evaluate why I was watching and if I wanted to keep watching going forward.

So I went back and started rewatching the various shows and realized that Abrams and Company weren't as far afield as I was convinced they were and damn the first movie was a fun ride (though flawed). I am able to enjoy each iteration for what it tried to be and what it is.

I'm a "Born-again Trekkie"!
This is just so cool of you to say.

When I first went online I was thrilled at the prospect of sharing the FUN of our favorite franchise with others around the world - then the reality of how MB's aren't about fun struck like lighting with my first log in to one of them.

Happy you finally saw you light, Trekkie!


BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
Someone here once suggested a logical possibility imo, (paraphrased) Abrams Trek dissenters are hardcore NG era fans unhappy over the direction Trek has been taken.

Perhaps they hope griping will sway enough people to sign their inevitable petition to 'return to the prime universe'
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Old July 7 2013, 04:08 AM   #59
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

The Keeper wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I just wonder why some people seem desperate for this movie to be considered a failure?
Someone here once suggested a logical possibility imo, (paraphrased) Abrams Trek dissenters are hardcore NG era fans unhappy over the direction Trek has been taken.

Perhaps they hope griping will sway enough people to sign their inevitable petition to 'return to the prime universe'
I have sympathy for their position. I really do - if I was a 24th century only fan I probably would not like STID.

I had to wait 25 Seasons for the return of the Star Trek I like most. LOL

But lets not pretend its "Spock's not in character" or "The Enterprise is too big" thats the problem. Its the fact that its not 24th century Star Trek that is the problem.

My own guess (as much as its worth) would be that 90% of those people who rated the movie < C or those that rated it F before seeing it would not be TOS fans (worried that the movie was not faithful to TOS).
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Old July 7 2013, 04:20 AM   #60
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Re: Conversation(s) Heard After the Movie [spoilers, maybe]

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Abrams Trek dissenters are hardcore NG era fans unhappy over the direction Trek has been taken.
Ah, they'll get to be unhappy all over again when someone remakes TNG one day!
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