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Old July 5 2013, 12:10 AM   #151
J. Allen
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Why don't they see that, if God existed, that Evolution, the result of random gene mutation, would be just one part of the Almighty's big tool box? If he created the universe, he set all the rules. Speed of light, gravity, time, strings, quarks, protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, molecules, particle decay, radiation, it all works according to a strict set of rules. And evolution is the result of all that. If there is a God, he probably made all those rules. And then hit the 'Start' Button and enjoyed watching how it all unfolds. Not much unlike a programmer who created a simulation.

Isn't that enough?

I don't get why it's such an aggressive "either-or" debate when both could be true.

If one believes in a god, shouldn't evolution act as evidence for how wonderful and complex that god is?

Is it really that important to people that everything happened literally as described in the Bible?
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
You will need to cite your sources, please, and the statistical data to back it up, or what you just said is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
I changed my previous post to make it clear that Muslim creationists tend to believe in an old Earth but an old Earth untouched by evolution (or at least by 'macroevolution'). There is a Turkish creationist who has managed to get Richard Dawkin's banned in Turkey.
Ouch. Turkey's not what I'd call a bastion of liberty anyway, but still, that's absurd. Dawkins is a brilliant man, who has many excellent ideas.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:12 AM   #152
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
There are religions that cannot abide by others not believing in their theology. It is in their doctrine that ALL must hear, and in the case of fundamentalist Christianity (and Islam), if they won't hear it, then they will be forced to hear it, if it has to be crammed into every science classroom in America. The reason this is, is because science requires critical thinking, and fundamentalist religions cannot abide critical thinking. If you think critically, you've broken the spell, and you're no longer under the thumb of that particular religion's hierarchy of authority, and that just will not do.

There is no real debate.
America fascinates me. I'm 31 and English and I don't know a single religious person, (well I should say I don't know a single Christian), I know a couple of Muslims.

Don't get me wrong a lot of really old people are religious, but virtually everyone my age and younger thinks it's ludicrous. I have a pretty large and varied social circle too, if anyone I know is into that stuff they're doing a good job keeping it to themselves.

My kids learn religion at school, but they learn all religions and are are taught to compare and contrast them, and it's made clear they are simply beliefs.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:13 AM   #153
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.
Evolution is nothing to do with non-life becoming life. That is abiogenesis.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:16 AM   #154
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.
Evolution is nothing to do with non-life becoming life. That is abiogenesis.
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific.
Really What's to do but laugh?
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Old July 5 2013, 12:19 AM   #155
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

SonOfMogh wrote: View Post
America fascinates me. I'm 31 and English and I don't know a single religious person, (well I should say I don't know a single Christian), I know a couple of Muslims.

Don't get me wrong a lot of really old people are religious, but virtually everyone my age and younger thinks it's ludicrous. I have a pretty large and varied social circle too, if anyone I know is into that stuff they're doing a good job keeping it to themselves.

My kids learn religion at school, but they learn all religions and are are taught to compare and contrast them, and it's made clear they are simply beliefs.
Our brand of Christianity is so hawkish because of a number of circumstances: It's something ingrained in our culture. We have a very strong independent streak, which is fine. As a nation, we tend to be more distrustful of outsiders, which is normal, as many nations aren't wholly accepting of outsiders. Combine that with a "it's us against them" mentality, and you have a recipe for fundamentalism.

In the U.S., most people talk the game of Christianity, but they don't walk it. They'll argue about how we're all going to hell in a handbasket, but most people are too busy with life to do anything about it beyond mere words. There are, however, small sections of more radical believers, and they're the ones who try to push for these things.

It also doesn't help how politicized Christianity is in this country. I swear to you that there are people who believe that if you're liberal, you can't be Christian. It's how the GOP (our conservative party) got the nickname "God's Own Party," because they have managed to align themselves with more fundamentalist Christianity, and because most fundamentalist Christians are open to authority that has the God price tag attached to it, they follow along unquestioningly.

That is what they want in schools. They want schools to become Church 2.0.

I do want to stress that this is fundamentalist religion, and not more moderate sects. The fundamentalists are pretty loud, though, and thanks to the Tea Party (a super conservative religious political organization that may eventually split the GOP), are in positions where they can make those changes happen.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:19 AM   #156
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
Not one single thing you've wrote is actually true, supported by evidences, or even reasonable. Good job, I guess.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:22 AM   #157
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
Not one single thing you've wrote is actually true, supported by evidences, or even reasonable. Good job, I guess.
Come now, give him a chance. I bet he has lots of evidence to support his statement! You'll see! I mean, who in their right mind who make such a broad statement without having anything to back it up? They'd look like a fool if they didn't!

He'll be back any second now with all of that data.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:23 AM   #158
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Deckerd wrote: View Post
It's fairly safe to say that anyone who thinks the bible is an accurate historical record has never had to think very hard about anything beyond what clothes to wear in the morning.
A sad cheap shot. Plenty of intelligent people believe in the Bible's historical record, and many scientists do as well.

Many events in the Biblical record have been verified by archaeology and other studies. Serious historians believe in the life, death, and post-mortem appearances of Christ (how these are interpreted is another question, of course).

Ironically, you, if you're an atheist, must believe in evolution, even though it's never been verified either! Of course, I assume you trust in the evolutionists' subjective interpretations of DNA, morphology, and the fossil record, and believe that this proves that evolution occurred. Of course it doesn't, but you're not willing to look at the contradicting evidence.

Of course, this is an emotions issue and not a facts issue. For some people, the Bible is wholly unacceptable and therefore they consider it false with zero credibility. Being in denial like this and making such false claims helps some to cope. It is much easier than to believe that the God of the Bible exists, since the God of the Bible demands accountability for the way we live.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:25 AM   #159
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
Not one single thing you've wrote is actually true, supported by evidences, or even reasonable. Good job, I guess.
Of course not. But you have to say that in order to remain an evolutionist, because the alternative is unacceptable. The facts show that evolution is a lie, but there's no way you're brave enough to look into the matter!
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Old July 5 2013, 12:25 AM   #160
J. Allen
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Deckerd wrote: View Post
It's fairly safe to say that anyone who thinks the bible is an accurate historical record has never had to think very hard about anything beyond what clothes to wear in the morning.
A sad cheap shot. Plenty of intelligent people believe in the Bible's historical record, and many scientists do as well.

Many events in the Biblical record have been verified by archaeology and other studies. Serious historians believe in the life, death, and post-mortem appearances of Christ (how these are interpreted is another question, of course).

Ironically, you, if you're an atheist, must believe in evolution, even though it's never been verified either! Of course, I assume you trust in the evolutionists' subjective interpretations of DNA, morphology, and the fossil record, and believe that this proves that evolution occurred. Of course it doesn't, but you're not willing to look at the contradicting evidence.

Of course, this is an emotions issue and not a facts issue. For some people, the Bible is wholly unacceptable and therefore they consider it false with zero credibility. Being in denial like this and making such false claims helps some to cope. It is much easier than to believe that the God of the Bible exists, since the God of the Bible demands accountability for the way we live.
Hi, sweetie. Atheist here, former Christian Minister, and I'm going to have to ask you to back up the statements you're making. I would like to see the statistical evidence, please.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:28 AM   #161
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Of course, this is an emotions issue and not a facts issue. For some people, the Bible is wholly unacceptable and therefore they consider it false with zero credibility. Being in denial like this and making such false claims helps some to cope. It is much easier than to believe that the God of the Bible exists, since the God of the Bible demands accountability for the way we live.
I love it when you talk dirty. Tell me about the fire and brimstone, baby. It makes me hot.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:29 AM   #162
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:36 AM   #163
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?



Captain McBain wrote: View Post
They just realize that evolution is unscientific.
Wrong

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not.
Wrong

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.
Easy doesn't equal correct.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences.
There are plenty of websites that show lesbian porn too.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.
Look harder. at facts. also, the bible doesn't contain facts.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion.
it isn't. it was all gloriously random.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.
god created snakes. it's his fault.

also, don't you think not being able to eat from the tree of knowledge shows god likes his followers uneducated?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.
yeah you could find some actual science on there instead!

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution.
it's a copious hole in the internet

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false.
in fact there isn't.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
no. making shit up there.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:37 AM   #164
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

He's getting that evidence right now, I just know it. Then again, he may be putting on lipstick, and dancing with the dog to candlelight. I can't really say, because this is an emotions issue, not a facts based one.
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Old July 5 2013, 12:39 AM   #165
1001001
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Re: Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Why don't they see that, if God existed, that Evolution, the result of random gene mutation, would be just one part of the Almighty's big tool box? If he created the universe, he set all the rules. Speed of light, gravity, time, strings, quarks, protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, molecules, particle decay, radiation, it all works according to a strict set of rules. And evolution is the result of all that. If there is a God, he probably made all those rules. And then hit the 'Start' Button and enjoyed watching how it all unfolds. Not much unlike a programmer who created a simulation.

Isn't that enough?

I don't get why it's such an aggressive "either-or" debate when both could be true.

If one believes in a god, shouldn't evolution act as evidence for how wonderful and complex that god is?

Is it really that important to people that everything happened literally as described in the Bible?
Creationists are not afraid of evolution. They just realize that evolution is unscientific. Speciation is true, observable science, but evolution (the idea that non-life became life on the early life and then evolved over billions of years to become man) is not. We can't jump in a time machine and observe evolution happening, and any 'facts' of evolution, such as DNA, the fossil record, morphology, etc., must be subjectively interpreted (the facts don't speak for themselves), and could just as easily (actually, easier) be interpreted in a Biblical, creationist way.

There are plenty of websites which show the fallacies of evolution, and there are over 100 young earth/universe evidences. An objective person sees that these evidences indicate a young earth and that evolution therefore could not have happened.

The core problem is that the Bible is a major issue for a lot of people. The Christian God is unacceptable, and so of course evolution must be true. For those who accept evolution and God's existence, for some reason a Creator God Who created in six days is unacceptable.

I don't see how the glory of God is shown in millions of years of animal death culminating in the evolution of man, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. I think God's glory is clearly better shown in His creation of a sinless, perfect universe---which only became subject to death and futility after sin was committed, an act by free humans.

Go to creation.com (look up "101 evidences for a young earth" and "It's not science") for more information on what I wrote above. You can also research a great deal of other topics.

Scienceagainstevolution.org is another great site which shows the copious holes in evolution. Again, speciation is true, but this doesn't prove or imply evolution in any way. There is much observational science which shows that evolution is false. It is not surprising at all that large numbers of scientists in our day are abandoning it.
This is complete and utter nonsense.

The science behind evolution is staggering in both breadth and depth. Its acceptance, its assumption, underlies nearly every natural science.

As for scientists "abandoning" evolution, that is preposterous. I can name 1275 scientists, just named Steve, who agree:

"Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism in its occurrence. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of our nation's public schools."

Project Steve: http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve

Young Earth creationism is as scientifically valid as the Flat Earth theory.
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