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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 3 2013, 09:54 PM   #46
R. Star
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Okay, for one thing we don't know the "full story" on why Troi wore the outfit she did. The only reason why she changed is because Jelico demanded it and he only did it because he "preferred formality on the bridge." Keep in mind Troi's primary job on the ship was to be a counselor so it makes some sense she'd wear a non-standard uniform when dealing with patients (so they wouldn't feel they were confiding with a fellow/superior officer, but a friend or a mental health professional.) We also know that it was an on-screen excuse to get Marina Sirtis out of the bunny suit.

We don't know the history or reasons why Worf got to wear the baldric.

Was Riker being an ass? Yeah, perhaps, but considering who he was dealing with can you blame him? Ro was very, very far away from being a model officer and she was handed a very prestigious assignment, serving on the Federation Flagship. She was dismissive and indifferent to the command structure and acted as if the rules didn't apply to her. She was a heartbeat away from being dishonorably discharged and thrown out on her ass and probably thrown into what serves for jail/prison in the Federation. She didn't ask permission to wear the earring on to the ship, she just did it.

Troi's clothing -likely- was part of making her patients more comfortable around her. It was essentially part of her job not wearing a uniform; when acting outside of her patient obligations Picard allowed her to have some flexibility in the dress code, likely sometime after "Encounter at Farpoint."

We don't know how, when, or why Worf got to wear the baldric but it too was likely something he earned by being a model officer, obeying orders and not causing trouble. We can probably assume at somepoint he asked for the privilege to wear it.

Ro had none of this. She was a trouble maker, by record alone. You deal with trouble makers by doubling-down on the rules towards them even if it means being petty. Let her wear the earring without asking permission or earning the privilege she'll take that inch and go a mile.

That's what she had proven by the end of the episode, though, that she was an officer worth investing some trust into and she had earned some slack on the uniform.
This sounds like the best explanation, to me. Riker is very protective of anyone he considers his family. That includes the ship. Ro's attitude and past history probably put Riker on edge, and he may have felt she threatened the safety of the ship even by simply being there.
Yeah, I might be able to buy that if he hadn't treated Barclay, Lavelle and Shelby the same way. Only reason Jellico didn't get the same treatment was because he had the rank to not have to put up with his hostility towards outsiders.
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Old July 3 2013, 10:16 PM   #47
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

R. Star wrote: View Post
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^ Like I said, it's an oft-used shorthand to refer to someone who is a Lieutenant Colonel as just "Colonel."

And we do know that the Bajoran military has that rank. Colonel Day (Steven Weber's character from that 3-parter) was one.
Though even Odo, a strictler for formality, even when he was laying it on thick in Image in the Sand, didn't say it.
Odo may be formal, but he has never cared much for the military or its practices.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:49 PM   #48
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Odo may be formal, but he has never cared much for the military or its practices.
Exactly. And as his own rank is honorary, he doesn't wear any sort insignia to note his position. And it's been said enough time that he tends to follow his own rules when it comes to doing his job. That's why Starfleet didn't trust him in the first place.

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Old July 4 2013, 12:04 AM   #49
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

Odo doesn't even have a rank. "Constable" is a position.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:33 AM   #50
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

^ And even then it was only a nickname given him by Kira.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:44 AM   #51
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

^Which I remember him mocking on occasion when he was angry.

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Old July 4 2013, 12:45 AM   #52
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

^ When was Odo ever NOT angry? Think about it.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:55 AM   #53
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah, I might be able to buy that if he hadn't treated Barclay, Lavelle and Shelby the same way. Only reason Jellico didn't get the same treatment was because he had the rank to not have to put up with his hostility towards outsiders.
Lavelle I don't quite remember and am not going to look it up right now, I'll deal with Shelby first:

Shelby was a guest on the ship during a special assignment but acted as if she was already in Riker's job. During their first major confrontation Shelby takes two of an Enterprise senior officer down to a potentially dangerous planet without asking permission first from the Away Team leader (Riker.) In their second major encounter Shelby, again, skirts the command structure and dances around Riker to take a suggestion directly to Picard. She needed to be smacked down for the presumptive behavior she was acting with, in assuming Riker was on his way out and that she was the new First Officer on the ship.

Barclay? Really, come on, can you blame Riker or even Geordi for that matter on how they treated him? Show up for work late a few times and occasionally piss off during your shift a few times to play video games and see how well your bosses treat you.

Barclay was another case of the crew dealing with someone that was a problem, like Ro (though less severely.) Here they are on the Enterprise, the pride of Starfleet, and they're dealing with a stammering guy who can't even manage to show up on time for his shift. Riker may have been actine a tad-bit harsh towards him but in the indication I got in the episode is that this had been going on for quite some time and and was just now reaching its breaking point with Riker. He was getting fed up with, as he says, always seeing Barclay's name on report.

Now, how Picard handles the situation was well done, I feel and he does nicely smack down Geordi (not so much Riker who gets very assish by barging in on the Holodeck where, frankly, he could've encountered anything) and get things straightened out but, still, Riker was dealing with a bit of a troublemaker. A slightly insubordinate officer or at least someone with little regard for the rules. (Though not defiantly so like Ro, just someone who probably need to be medicated with some mood-stabilizing drugs or something as their emotional issues were causing them to ignore or disregard the rules. I mean he's about to go on duty and he goes dicking around in the holodeck and doesn't even set a notice with the computer on when he needs to leave?!)

Riker has plenty of times when he's being an ass and he can be an ass. But I don't think this was a systemic problem with the Enterprise crew playing "favorites" with one another. (It may seem that way, however, since we have almost no secondary crew members like DS9 did and when one IS introduced it's done to cause conflict in the story so by the rules of drama the crew HAS to act a certain way against these "outside characters.")

... Was Lavelle the Riker-like kid in "Lower Decks?" I vaguely recall, but I'd chalk that up to Riker simply being hard on the junior officer for training purposes and perhaps even seeing a bit of himself in the kid so being hard on him for the sake of "straightening himself out vicariously through Lavelle." Riker does seem somewhat civil towards him during their encounter in Ten-Forward when presumably both are off duty where, presumably, the command structure no longer applies.

Riker was an ass. With Barclay, Lavelle and to some degree even Shelby perhaps too much so. But those also were all situations where there's some justification there and some blame can be placed on the other party (except in the case of Lavelle where it was just a consequence of his rank.)

But when it came to Ro? Again, she was the very definition of a trouble maker who was handed a prestigious assignment. She NEEDED to be smacked down and smacked down HARD for her previous actions and as I said one of the ways to do that is to apply the rules strictly.
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Old July 4 2013, 01:41 AM   #54
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ When was Odo ever NOT angry? Think about it.
I remember him smiling while he was swaying to the music during the Bajoran New Year celebration. Then Lwaxana whisked him away.

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Old July 4 2013, 07:49 PM   #55
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

I don't have time to read this entire thread, but from the apparent butthurt leveled at Riker as evidenced by the first dozen or so posts here, some of you should take this into consideration.

Just as Riker's behavior at first is dickish (because of Ro's actions leading to the death of eight other officers), it's also literally his job to enforce ship rules. It's against the fucking rules to wear any non-standard apparel or ornamentation. So in Riker's eyes - whether it's religious or not - she shouldn't be wearing the earring on duty.

Why then does Worf get to wear his baldric? Because he's earned the special dispensation to do so. Literally no evidence is given about why Worf wears the thing throughout either this series, the four films he appears in, or his four years on DS9. So we can assume that it's presence could be due to any number of reasons, but the most likely - based especially on Riker's reaction here - is that its a special dispensation kind of thing, that Picard allows because he knows Worf is a solid officer.

When Ro arrives on board, she has done nothing yet to prove herself as same. And by the end of the episode, she's done exactly that - proven herself (to Picard and Guinan, anyway) and that's why Picard okays the earring.

Lastly, none of us knew, when "Ensign Ro" aired in 1990, how integral and important the Bajoran religious faith was. That element of their culture was not established until well after the episode had aired during development of DS9. So, it's a little silly to get so up in arms over such a minor instance like this.
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Old July 4 2013, 08:47 PM   #56
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ When was Odo ever NOT angry? Think about it.
When he was making Quark miserable or in Kira's pants.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:10 AM   #57
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

I think it's unfair to criticize Riker's behavior towards Barclay based on only "Hollow Pursuits". I just rewatched Barclay's second appearance, "The Nth Degree", and Riker is perfectly friendly and encouraging towards Barclay there (until he starts taking over the ship, of course). He's grinning like a goon during Barclay's performance in the teaser, yelling "Bravo!", and telling Data to be polite.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:19 AM   #58
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think it's unfair to criticize Riker's behavior towards Barclay based on only "Hollow Pursuits". I just rewatched Barclay's second appearance, "The Nth Degree", and Riker is perfectly friendly and encouraging towards Barclay there (until he starts taking over the ship, of course). He's grinning like a goon during Barclay's performance in the teaser, yelling "Bravo!", and telling Data to be polite.
Barclay had proven himself by then, so the circumstances were different. In "Hollow Pursuits," Barclay was new to the ship and hadn't yet been accepted by the crew. As he was an outcast, Riker rode him until he helped Geordi save the ship.

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Old July 6 2013, 03:40 AM   #59
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

^I'm very well aware. Perhaps you remember that in "Hollow Pursuits", Barclay had major issues that were affecting his on-duty performance. The issue here is the simplistic view that some are expressing that Riker was just being a jerk to people like Barclay for no reason...a view that is completely undermined by Riker's later behavior towards Barclay, once Barclay was behaving like a responsible officer.
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Old July 6 2013, 03:49 AM   #60
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Re: Why can't Ro wear her Bajoran earring?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
^I'm very well aware. Perhaps you remember that in "Hollow Pursuits", Barclay had major issues that were affecting his on-duty performance. The issue here is the simplistic view that some are expressing that Riker was just being a jerk to people like Barclay for no reason...a view that is completely undermined by Riker's later behavior towards Barclay, once Barclay was behaving like a responsible officer.
I understand. I don't think Riker mistreated him for no reason. I think Riker has a problem with people whom he considers outside his professional or social circles. As Barclay was new to Enterprise during the third season, it's not surprising that Riker was on his case. That his performance was also suboptimal made the problem worse. Once Barclay's performance improved, Riker found him easier to accept and didn't ride him as hard.

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