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Old June 30 2013, 04:15 PM   #16
DonIago
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

It might have been interesting if there'd been more shake-up in the VOY cast, but it bugs me when people insist that the deaths must have some sort of meaning. I'm not against the concept in general terms, but the reality is Death doesn't work that way and I think there's a lot to be said for exploring the concept that sometimes it just happens and doesn't have a higher purpose.

One thing I liked about Lost is that, IMO, they did a good balance of the deaths that meant something versus ones that were random and pointless.

What was Voyager's casualty rate, anyway?
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Old June 30 2013, 04:42 PM   #17
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I would have cried forever and ever and never forgiven the creators. I like it just the way it is.
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Old June 30 2013, 04:53 PM   #18
MacLeod
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I must have missed that valentine to the fans.
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Old June 30 2013, 05:14 PM   #19
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

eskyliz wrote: View Post
I would have cried forever and ever and never forgiven the creators. I like it just the way it is.

This is why startrek Prime universe failed.


No one wanted to change anything and it stagnated.
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Old June 30 2013, 05:21 PM   #20
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
I don't see why. DS9 only killed off Dax and even then she didn't totally "die" since Ezri was brought in. And DS9's cast was in a position where it made sense for them to die more than VOY's crew.
I was glad when they killed off Jadzia Dax. I never liked the character, and the actress had such a snooty attitude toward her fellow cast members (how DARE they give storylines to the supporting characters!). And it seemed there was nothing Dax couldn't do. She knew it all, had done it all, had not one weakness or flaw. She was just so damn perfect!

And perfect characters are annoying.

DonIago wrote: View Post
It might have been interesting if there'd been more shake-up in the VOY cast, but it bugs me when people insist that the deaths must have some sort of meaning. I'm not against the concept in general terms, but the reality is Death doesn't work that way and I think there's a lot to be said for exploring the concept that sometimes it just happens and doesn't have a higher purpose.

One thing I liked about Lost is that, IMO, they did a good balance of the deaths that meant something versus ones that were random and pointless.

What was Voyager's casualty rate, anyway?
Remember how upset the Tasha Yar fans were at her first death? I know I was upset, since Tasha was my favorite TNG character.

There would have a hell of a fuss made if Spock hadn't died heroically in TWOK (not that they wanted him to die at all, just if he had to, let it be for a purpose).

Most of the times the Doctor has died/regenerated, it's because he's given his current life to save others, whether a Companion, or the entire Universe. Sure, TPTB could have had him need to regenerate after being run over by a bus in traffic, but where's the heroism in that?
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Old June 30 2013, 05:27 PM   #21
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I am not a fan of character death, in fact I hate it, it is a lazy way to motivate other characters.
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Old June 30 2013, 05:38 PM   #22
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
in. And DS9's cast was in a position where it made sense for them to die more than VOY's crew.
I would say being trapped 70,000 light years from home was about as dangrous as it can get!
Picard and Kirk had the same thing happen to them, they handled it okay.
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Old June 30 2013, 05:42 PM   #23
Crazyewok
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Picard and Kirk had the same thing happen to them, they handled it okay.
Not for a protracted period of time.

Voyager should not have been the squeaky clean federation ship.

It should have had supply problems, been upgrading itself with alien tec. The whole ship should have looked different than when it started. In BSG they had the ship literally falling apart by the end. Seeing as they did not have federation outposts and starbases to have maintince they should have had the same problem! Even the Ent D had to go in for maintince every few years.


If they wanted to be TNG: 2.0 then why bother with delta quadrant setting? They could of just been on a long range deep space mission in the Alpha quadrant!

Series 1&2 plus the year of hell episode was the only time I brought into that setting.
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Old June 30 2013, 06:15 PM   #24
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

eskyliz wrote: View Post
I would have cried forever and ever and never forgiven the creators. I like it just the way it is.
I understand that. As many of you here know, I was very angry and upset when Kes was dumped and I still haven't forgiven those in charge for that.
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Old June 30 2013, 06:39 PM   #25
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

There is nothing wrong with change per say. Change can be a good thing. But the opposite is also true it can be a bad thing. It's about finding the right balance. Sometimes change comes off as change for changes sake.
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Old June 30 2013, 07:05 PM   #26
Timewalker
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Brit wrote: View Post
I am not a fan of character death, in fact I hate it, it is a lazy way to motivate other characters.
It worked on Doctor Who, when Adric was killed off...

Anwar wrote: View Post
Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
in. And DS9's cast was in a position where it made sense for them to die more than VOY's crew.
I would say being trapped 70,000 light years from home was about as dangrous as it can get!
Picard and Kirk had the same thing happen to them, they handled it okay.
But they had a combination of Medusan navigational skillz and magic!
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Old June 30 2013, 08:36 PM   #27
Anwar
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Picard and Kirk had the same thing happen to them, they handled it okay.
Not for a protracted period of time.
So they got home sooner. That there was precedent for this sort of stuff shows that this shouldn't have affected morale much, at least not for a few years.

It should have had supply problems, been upgrading itself with alien tec. The whole ship should have looked different than when it started.
Moya from Farscape was in a similar situation, and that ship never needed upgrades and all that stuff. And it was a living ship, yet we never saw the crew have to "feed" it to keep it going.

In BSG they had the ship literally falling apart by the end.
The Galactica was already a retired vessel that wasn't in good shape to begin with.

And anyways, it had similar problems to Voyager in that they only ever had ONE weapons restock the entire series and yet that lasted them the whole series.

Seeing as they did not have federation outposts and starbases to have maintince they should have had the same problem! Even the Ent D had to go in for maintince every few years.
That's the problem, they wrote something into the premise of the show (no support) that they didn't really think out. The ship really wouldn't have survived without any support but they'd have to violate the premise to do anything, which meant they were screwed no matter WHAT they did.

If they wanted to be TNG: 2.0 then why bother with delta quadrant setting? They could of just been on a long range deep space mission in the Alpha quadrant!
I agree, but for different reasons. They should've had more DQ aliens in the crew to give us connection to the DQ and flesh out the area more instead of running away from everything.

In Farscape, most of the cast were from the area of space the show was set in so there was plenty of connection. VOY had none of that and thus wasted the DQ setting by having no connection to it.
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Old June 30 2013, 10:25 PM   #28
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

[QUOTE=Anwar;8319370
That's the problem, they wrote something into the premise of the show (no support) that they didn't really think out. The ship really wouldn't have survived without any support but they'd have to violate the premise to do anything, which meant they were screwed no matter WHAT they did.

.[/QUOTE]

Well no cause as I said they could have showed the ship slowly falling apart and being patched up with alien tec. As well as replaceing dead crew with some delta quadrent recruits as th series went along.

Dont know why voyager would have lost rateing if they had shown a ship falling apart.


As for killing off major crew? How can I buy a situation dangrous or develop a sense of suspence when I know that everything will turn out ok at the end of every episode?
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Old June 30 2013, 10:56 PM   #29
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
It might have been interesting if there'd been more shake-up in the VOY cast, but it bugs me when people insist that the deaths must have some sort of meaning. I'm not against the concept in general terms, but the reality is Death doesn't work that way and I think there's a lot to be said for exploring the concept that sometimes it just happens and doesn't have a higher purpose.

One thing I liked about Lost is that, IMO, they did a good balance of the deaths that meant something versus ones that were random and pointless.

What was Voyager's casualty rate, anyway?
Remember how upset the Tasha Yar fans were at her first death? I know I was upset, since Tasha was my favorite TNG character.

There would have a hell of a fuss made if Spock hadn't died heroically in TWOK (not that they wanted him to die at all, just if he had to, let it be for a purpose).

Most of the times the Doctor has died/regenerated, it's because he's given his current life to save others, whether a Companion, or the entire Universe. Sure, TPTB could have had him need to regenerate after being run over by a bus in traffic, but where's the heroism in that?
Why does every death have to be heroic? To please the fans? Because if that's the rationale, then there are fans who are displeased by that theory.

I don't really remember anyone being upset by Yar's death, though the internet back then wasn't what it is today.

Anyway, so what if some fans are upset? There's nothing TPTB can do that's going to please everyone, especially if they want to take significant risks, and in my opinion they should focus less on pleasing the fans and more on writing good stories, and if a good story necessitates a character suffering a pointless death, then so be it. I certainly have a lot more respect for a Pointless Death then a Miraculous Survival.

Hell, if the happiness of fans was the overriding priority then the last two movies wouldn't have happened...and say whatever you want about them, at least they made Star Trek something people talk about again.

I think it can easily be argued that one of the best episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer involved the pointless death of a major character.
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Old June 30 2013, 11:06 PM   #30
delenn13
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I think they should have renamed it....Star Trek:The Many Ways We Can Kill Harry Kim and Bring Him Back
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