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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 9 2013, 01:12 AM   #166
teacake
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I have never voted in my life.
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Old July 9 2013, 01:54 AM   #167
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
The flaw being the magically appearing back-up copy of the EMH that only a few episodes earlier they didn't have?
Yes.

And even if they did manage to construct one and it was lost why not construct another one. As in later episodes there was no EMH back-up module. As plot flaws goes it's a big one.
No it's not. They made one between episodes, and they didn't have the materials to make another one.

Honestly, this is just another example of how unpleasable VOY's audience is. They do something that shows they don't have 100% renewable tech (they can't make another backup) and no one cares.

Of course setting aside the massive plot hole it was one of VOY's better episodes.
Which you wouldn't know, based on the endless whining and griping.

"Best of Both Worlds" or "Wrath of Khan" could've been VOY episodes and no one would see anything worthwhile about those stories if they were the VOY audience.
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Old July 9 2013, 01:59 AM   #168
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

They should pay us to vote.

What American Idol has taught us is that we no longer need Proportional representation.

You can get a decent percentage of the population, 40 - 60 percent (but not always the same people.) to weigh in on any subject. Although voter fraud would be insane. Muggers using other people cellphones to vote down wage rises to law enforcement.
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Old July 9 2013, 02:07 AM   #169
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

I wouldn't mind hiring myself out to vote for other people, maybe 20 bucks a pop? One Saturday every 3 or so years, though maybe I could expand out of Federal and do council elections too. Travel, see the sights. How many sausage sizzles would I have to resist.
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Old July 9 2013, 03:38 AM   #170
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Folks can say NOW what they liked about the show, but it doesn't match up with their reactions back when anything aired.

Hell, even "Living Witness" was seen only for its flaws and not its strengths.
Citations needed.
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Old July 9 2013, 03:43 AM   #171
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

You had to be there.

And if you were there, then you had to be Anwar.
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Old July 9 2013, 05:31 AM   #172
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

DonIago wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Folks can say NOW what they liked about the show, but it doesn't match up with their reactions back when anything aired.

Hell, even "Living Witness" was seen only for its flaws and not its strengths.
Citations needed.
If folks liked it, then they wouldn't have complained so much over the "Backup EMH" thing. They do complain, which means they care more about that one thing than anything else in the story.

Which shows how hopeless the series was in terms of getting any kind of good reception, because no matter how good any of the stories were, if there was a single flaw in any of them that's all that would get noticed.

Last edited by Anwar; July 9 2013 at 06:59 AM.
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Old July 9 2013, 07:30 AM   #173
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

^But isn't this where if they had been more serialised, they could have avoided such issues. In an episode inbetween "Message in a Bottle" and "Living Witness" you have a line of dialouge that you've been able to construct a back-up module for the EMH?

Now as for being unable to create another one, they seemed to have no problem with repairing hull plates, interior bulkheads, building not 1 but 2 delta flyers, repairs to shuttlecrafts etc.. So it's seems unlikely they wouldn't have been able to build another back-up module for the EMH after the first was lost.

It's not the audiances fault if they call the writers/producers on it for being inconsistant. The drew attention to the fact that they didn't have a back-up module for the EMH, if you want to have one good writing would say you inform the audiance before you plan to use it you now have one.
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Old July 9 2013, 07:36 AM   #174
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post

If folks liked it, then they wouldn't have complained so much over the "Backup EMH" thing. They do complain, which means they care more about that one thing than anything else in the story.

Which shows how hopeless the series was in terms of getting any kind of good reception, because no matter how good any of the stories were, if there was a single flaw in any of them that's all that would get noticed.
Good thing Voyager has me then since I never notice half these things until I read about them here.

Oh Voyager, never you mind all those horrid people and their HATE and their NITS.. I will make you happy. You don't need them, you only need me.
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Old July 9 2013, 03:06 PM   #175
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

This is ridiculous. Just because people point out one inconsistency in an episode, and even call it a major inconsistency, doesn't mean they don't think it's a good episode.

Barring actual evidence to the contrary, I'm calling shenanigans on the idea that either "The Void" or "Living Witness" weren't considered good episodes at the original airing.
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Old July 9 2013, 04:23 PM   #176
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
^But isn't this where if they had been more serialised, they could have avoided such issues.
Nope. If the audience is intent on seeing only the flaws that all there is to it.

Now as for being unable to create another one, they seemed to have no problem with repairing hull plates, interior bulkheads, building not 1 but 2 delta flyers, repairs to shuttlecrafts etc..
Fixing an existing thing with minor repairs or making a shuttle isn't the same as backing up something as complex as the Doctor.

It's not the audiances fault if they call the writers/producers on it for being inconsistant.
It's their fault for being so nitpicky they don't appreciate touching storytelling when it happens because they're too obsessed with seeing only the flaws. Folks like that don't deserve good writing since they wouldn't appreciate it anyways.

Robert Picardo's acting as the distraught EMH, the whole story about revisionist history, the depth we got from Quarran. And the audience saw NONE of that because they were so petty over the backup EMH thing.

This is ridiculous. Just because people point out one inconsistency in an episode, and even call it a major inconsistency, doesn't mean they don't think it's a good episode.
If that were true, folks would look back at the episode with fondness instead of just whining over the backup EMH thing. People saw this one minor flaw and let it ruin it for them, which shows how unpleasable they are.

Last edited by Anwar; July 9 2013 at 04:43 PM.
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Old July 9 2013, 04:34 PM   #177
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

When this stuff first aired, how large was your discussion group Anwar?

I'm not being sarcastic.

It's a question of proportional sampling.

Three guys sitting in a tree house isn't examplitive (Hazzah! I invented a word!) of shit.

30 people of mixed gender and age and backgrounds at a social club pepped up on soda yelling at each other might be.
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Old July 9 2013, 04:38 PM   #178
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

It was more like 10 people, TBH.
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Old July 9 2013, 04:45 PM   #179
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

And now we understand.
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Old July 9 2013, 07:11 PM   #180
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Re: Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Anwar wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
^But isn't this where if they had been more serialised, they could have avoided such issues.
Nope. If the audience is intent on seeing only the flaws that all there is to it.

Now as for being unable to create another one, they seemed to have no problem with repairing hull plates, interior bulkheads, building not 1 but 2 delta flyers, repairs to shuttlecrafts etc..
Fixing an existing thing with minor repairs or making a shuttle isn't the same as backing up something as complex as the Doctor.

It's not the audiances fault if they call the writers/producers on it for being inconsistant.
It's their fault for being so nitpicky they don't appreciate touching storytelling when it happens because they're too obsessed with seeing only the flaws. Folks like that don't deserve good writing since they wouldn't appreciate it anyways.

Robert Picardo's acting as the distraught EMH, the whole story about revisionist history, the depth we got from Quarran. And the audience saw NONE of that because they were so petty over the backup EMH thing.

This is ridiculous. Just because people point out one inconsistency in an episode, and even call it a major inconsistency, doesn't mean they don't think it's a good episode.
If that were true, folks would look back at the episode with fondness instead of just whining over the backup EMH thing. People saw this one minor flaw and let it ruin it for them, which shows how unpleasable they are.
Now people can still enjoy something yet call them on where they went wrong.

Would adding a line in an episode between "Message in a bottle" and "Living Witness" about being able to construct a backup module and one after "Living Witness" saying they didn't have the resources to build another one. Have really impacted those episodes ? I suspect not. So why not put one in, Sci-Fi fans esp. Star Trek fans are noted for picking up on continuity errors.

Surely the aim is to invest you audiance in the show it's characters, setting premise etc... It's not the audiances fault if they pull the producers up for their mistakes esp. when they themselves drew attention to the fact that they could do this/or didn't have this for every episode before hand but now magically they have one.

Whether you like it or not the show VOY was about the journey of the U.S.S. Voyager home. So each episode is like a chapter in a book. A good writer would drop something in an earlier chapter if they planned to use it in a later chapter.
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