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Old October 30 2013, 09:54 PM   #136
R. Star
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

teacock wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Maybe Future Guy was Future Gal. I could totally see Janeway just screwing with the timeline for her own amusement.
According to Braga Future Guy was Archer. But I think that was just some inspired bs he threw to the little people, to see them rile.
Yeah, that was kinda funny. It did work.
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Old October 30 2013, 11:04 PM   #137
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Archer being Future Guy would have been awesome. Fallen hero. And Archer having to fight his own destiny.
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Old October 30 2013, 11:39 PM   #138
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

teacock wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Maybe Future Guy was Future Gal. I could totally see Janeway just screwing with the timeline for her own amusement.
According to Braga Future Guy was Archer. But I think that was just some inspired bs he threw to the little people, to see them rile.
As I recall, your initial reaction was along the lines of it being something he tweeted out while sitting on the toilet.
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Old October 31 2013, 12:01 AM   #139
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

At the time, in the beginning, it seemed too obvious.

The Novels outted an unknown as Future Guy, but here's turd of a question... Would pocketbooks have shot down "Archer is Future Guy" or would they really have not cared since Enterprise was dead and buried and there was no new canon to worry about.

Furthermore now that Future Guy has been outed does the continuing cast of Enterprise in the Novels have the class to pretend that they don't know who Future Guy is when they meet past version of him in their future so that they dion't fuck up their own personal timelines?

General Hammond from Stargate pretended since 1969 that he didn't know what a Stargate was, which must have been more complex after he was put in charge of the SGC.

It's merely a question of politeness.

Oddly in Marvel a new character turned up called Kid Immortus who has a really fucked up timeline where he attends cross time conventions of himself to discuss policy and recent campaigns... Never mind.
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Old October 31 2013, 12:15 AM   #140
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Surely you don't mean they had it all planned out from the start, and Archer being future guy would be the trope known as an Ass Pull?
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Old October 31 2013, 12:35 AM   #141
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

6 months ago Brannon said on twitter that that had been the plan since day one.

Most people think he's lying. Maybe it was a half assed inkling in competition with other half assed inklings, but there's no way it was set in stone as the big reveal primed for a delayed gratification 3 or 4 years down the line.

In 2001 when Enterprise started, anyone who made a list of who Future guy might have been, they would have put Archer on that list, and then crossed it off because it's way too cheesy, only slightly less cheesy than making it John's dad Hank.

Or is that not what you meant MacLeod?
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Old October 31 2013, 12:53 AM   #142
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Maybe Future Guy was Zefrem Cochrane. As far as the 22nd century and everyone other than Kirk, Spock, and McCoy knows, he disappeared after flying off into space.
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Old October 31 2013, 01:09 AM   #143
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

I would have liked Endgame better if it had been Seven who travelled back in time instead of Janeway and if her plan to get Voyager home had ultimately failed but led to tthe destruction of the Borg transhub thing and them being flung past Borg territory and much closer to home.

The scenes in teh future at the beginning would have given an impression of how things would end up for our characters and the end scene could have been the crew all happy and optimistic with teh knowledge that home is only round the next corner rather than all the way accross town.
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Old October 31 2013, 01:09 AM   #144
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

So he's still on the metamorphosis planetoid 6 hundred years later, using the cloud as a transmitter to send orders through time to his soldiers in the past?

Which is sex.

Zeph makes love with the cloud to create a temporal radio transmitter.
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Old October 31 2013, 04:15 AM   #145
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

M.A.C.O. wrote: View Post
^ I'm the opposite. I think this show could've used a lot less AGT. I mean we see the alternate future of VOY crew on Earth, but by the episodes end that timeline is erased. I think they wasted an opportunity and our time by showing us something that was going to be inconsequential and different from what actually happens by episodes end. Yes it gives future Janeway motivations, but it's not about Future Janeway.

Things I wanted to see:

1. I wanted to see the VOY crew actually make it to Earth, and set foot on it!

2. I wanted to see how the crew adjusted to being back on Earth after 7 years in deep space.

3. I wanted to see how the characters (especially the Maqui) dealt with this post-Dominion War Federation.

4. I wanted to know if the former VOY Maqui were going to be charged or face any punitive actions.

5. I wanted to see Janeway face the Starfleet brass regarding the exabytes of information she gathered in the DQ. Also to see if any of the admirals would verbally accost Janeway for her rash decision to strand herself, her crew and the Maqui in the DQ in the first place.
Everything you say is true and it's exactly what they should have done.

Having said that, I don't think we ever had a snowball's chance in hell of it actually happening. It would have required Voyager's final episode to be introspective and backwards looking, and I think it's pretty clear that The Powers That Be were long past the point of wanting to dissect the series' premise, or go back to those original format documents and explore who those characters are. They'd moved on, and all they were really interested in was doing something explosive where Janeway could kick ass.

It is criminal that, for a series where the whole damn premise is "we gotta get home", the only snatches of Voyager actually arriving home that we get to see are news recordings seen retrospectively in the non-existant future timeline that never happened.
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Old October 31 2013, 04:40 AM   #146
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Here's the thing about Series 7. I'm not sure of the exactly particulars but in the broadest possible way... Berman and Braga were building the foundations of Enterprise where they thought they would be for the next 7 years and a couple movies.

The actual drones doing the heaving lifting and day to day in season seven of Voyager were the old men looking at retirement, pissed that they hadn't been asked to move on to Enterprise and the children who were pissed because they thought they had a future here who clearly didn't because they hadn't been asked to move on to Enterprise.

Season Seven of Voyager made by the angry bitter, and resentful.
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Old October 31 2013, 05:51 AM   #147
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

I'm probably going to watch"Endgame" again tonight in a few minutes, and just finished with "Dark Frontier". I usually skip "Unimatrix Zero". All I'll say is I thought it appropriate that they managed to grab Alice Krige to bookend the Queen she created.

She was already trying to cope with the sexual dynamics being different from her earlier seductive interpretation with Data and Picard. One of the producers told her to think of the Queen as Omni-sexual, and that apparently clicked for her. That was her challenge for the performance, and the TV pace was probably a lot faster than her filmed Trek experience.

I liked seeing Alice back, partly because I first noticed her name in the 1981 film Ghost Story.
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Old October 31 2013, 05:59 AM   #148
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

I always saw the Queen and Seven as mother and daughter rather than lovers.

Is my incestdar really that poorly aligned?
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Old October 31 2013, 06:25 AM   #149
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Well, as the saying goes, "Vice is nice, but incest is best."

And actually, the only reason I paid attention to her name in Ghost Story was because she had a nude scene.
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Old October 31 2013, 06:37 AM   #150
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

First time I saw her was in a b-grade horror movie called Sleepwalkers, possibly nude, but certainly having sex with her son.

Meh. Didn't leave an impact.
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