RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,737
Posts: 5,432,901
Members: 24,836
Currently online: 420
Newest member: crazycornuts

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 26 2013, 05:48 PM   #1
cannicks
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Search?

Who gives a damn about free movement?

Look, freedom is not even absolute as it stands.

Had the Federation sealed the wormhole after The Search, then no Dominion War.

And screw the Bajorans also. Why then does it matter if they whine about lack of access to the Prophets? So their religion must threaten the entire Alpha Quadrant?
cannicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 06:07 PM   #2
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

^You've raised several issues, so I'll respond here.

The Federation was interested in making Bajor a member in the near future. As such, it would not have been wise to alienate the Bajorans by cutting them off from their gods, nor would it have been prudent to remove an important avenue for trade and commerce that the Bajorans were using to rebuild their economy following the Cardassian Occupation.

Starfleet was interested in exploring the Gamma Quadrant and hoped to continue doing so even after the Dominion was discovered. Mining the wormhole would have prevented that.

Finally, there's no reason to believe that a small number of Changelings weren't already in the Alpha Quadrant by the time "The Search" took place. We know that they were "everywhere" by the end of the year, so it's possible that some members of the Great Link had already infiltrated various governments in the Alpha Quadrant. Mining the wormhole may not have stopped them from eventually bringing Jem'Hadar ships and troops into the AQ.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 06:17 PM   #3
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Well they could have quite easily mined it with deactivated mines that could be turned on if a war started.


That way they could have there cake and eat it .
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 06:20 PM   #4
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Because it's the Federation. There was still the chance they could make nice with the Dominion and explore the Gamma Quadrant.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 06:25 PM   #5
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

R. Star wrote: View Post
Because it's the Federation.
I forget everyone has had the common sense part of there brain removed by the 23rd Century
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 08:12 PM   #6
cannicks
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Sran wrote: View Post
^You've raised several issues, so I'll respond here.

The Federation was interested in making Bajor a member in the near future. As such, it would not have been wise to alienate the Bajorans by cutting them off from their gods, nor would it have been prudent to remove an important avenue for trade and commerce that the Bajorans were using to rebuild their economy following the Cardassian Occupation.

Starfleet was interested in exploring the Gamma Quadrant and hoped to continue doing so even after the Dominion was discovered. Mining the wormhole would have prevented that.

Finally, there's no reason to believe that a small number of Changelings weren't already in the Alpha Quadrant by the time "The Search" took place. We know that they were "everywhere" by the end of the year, so it's possible that some members of the Great Link had already infiltrated various governments in the Alpha Quadrant. Mining the wormhole may not have stopped them from eventually bringing Jem'Hadar ships and troops into the AQ.

--Sran
Or the bible could be the unalterable word of God, who knows? Either point is valid.
cannicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 08:28 PM   #7
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Well they could have quite easily mined it with deactivated mines that could be turned on if a war started.
You forgetting something. The mines in and of themselves may have been interpreted as an act of aggression by the Federation and precipitated the war Starfleet wanted so desperately to avoid. Even if the Dominion had been trapped in the Gamma Quadrant, who's to say Starfleet's actions don't provoke the Klingons or the Romulans into starting a fight. It's pointed out in "Sons of Mogh" that mining a star system for any reason is an act of war. Why do something that undermines itself?

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 08:29 PM   #8
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

cannicks wrote: View Post
Or the bible could be the unalterable word of God, who knows? Either point is valid.
I don't see what Christianity has to do with this, but carry on.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 08:57 PM   #9
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Sran wrote: View Post
You forgetting something. The mines in and of themselves may have been interpreted as an act of aggression by the Federation and precipitated the war Starfleet wanted so desperately to avoid. Even if the Dominion had been trapped in the Gamma Quadrant, who's to say Starfleet's actions don't provoke the Klingons or the Romulans into starting a fight. It's pointed out in "Sons of Mogh" that mining a star system for any reason is an act of war. Why do something that undermines itself?

--Sran
But after the Die is cast I dont think anyone in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant would have minded especialy the Romulan and Cardassian who would have been scared witless of a counter attack.

By this point war was more or less certain.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 09:08 PM   #10
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Crazyewok wrote:
But after the Die is cast I dont think anyone in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant would have minded especialy the Romulan and Cardassian who would have been scared witless of a counter attack.

By this point war was more or less certain.
That still doesn't address the other issues at work here.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 10:07 PM   #11
TenLubak
Commander
 
TenLubak's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore MD USA
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

That would be like blowing up a canal connecting two hard to reach places. Its useful to travel through, despite perhaps giving a shortcut to some enemy on the other end in a potential war one day.

Plus what a mean thing to do to the Bajorians, blow up thier gods home.
__________________
"Now, how are we progressing, Mister La Forge?"
"About like you'd expect, sir."
"Splendid. Splendid. Carry on."
TenLubak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 10:47 PM   #12
cannicks
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Granted, but then does this mean the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc. should be slaves of the Dominion, just because the Bajorans want to keep their religion? Why is the Bajorans' need more pressing than the entire Alpha Quadrant's?

As for an act of war, well in Call to Arms this was based on blockage of free transit. However in season 3, Cardassia hadn't joined the Dominion as yet, and there were no large regular convoys from the Gamma Quadrant to Cardassia Prime. By that reasoning, the attempt to collapse the wormhole in Season 5 would have been an act of war also. Also, the Prophets' own Emissary (of course Captain Ben) designated the plan himself to collapse it and the Bajorans largely agreed.

I don't see why an entire quadrant must be threatened just because some whiny planet won't see their gods again. But then again, very few Bajorans ever had seen the Prophets or the wormhole. Let's presume that the Bajoran religion is 10 or 20000 years old. And in that time, of perhaps hundreds of millions or billions of Bajorans who lived in that time, very few were noted to have met/spoke with the Prophets or entered the wormhole itself. It also seemed that the Prophets would contact specific Bajorans with visions, or they would consult one of the Orbs. To mine the wormhole probably wouldn't have made that much difference in that regard.
cannicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 10:50 PM   #13
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

Sran wrote: View Post

That still doesn't address the other issues at work here.

--Sran

Still not seeing the problem.

Deactivated mines round the wormhole would not effect the Klingons, Romulans,Cardassians. Infact I cant see why they would be against it as its does not affect them.

I cant see why the Bajorans would be against it as if they are dormant they wont stop wormhole traffic. By the time they are needed and activated then Bajor would be in a situation were its that or be destroyed.

They wont hurt the Wormhole either as they are just mines outside.



The only person that would get pissy are the Dominion and by the time of The Die is cast war was more or less going to happen thanks to Cardassian and Romulan stupidity. I cant see how you could have made the founder more pissed off to be honnest. And even though the Federation had nothing to do with the attack we know the Dominion would still just lump the Federation with them anyway for just being solid.


If I was in charge of Starfleet I would have mined it and given the activation codes to the Bajorans too to keep them happy and I would have pulled ten ships off Exploration dutys and stationed them at DS9 Alongside the Defiant to deter some power trying to sieze the station like in way of the warrior. O and I would have assigned a experianced admiral from the border wars to DS9 too seeing as its such a hugely important post.


Hey look I just stopped the most destructive war in Federation history

But seeing as I have common sense and logic I doubt I would have made it past the acadermy entrance exam And even if I did Im most likley not corrupt and useless enough to get to Admiral anyway let alone Head of Starfleet.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 11:10 PM   #14
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

cannicks wrote: View Post
Granted, but then does this mean the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc. should be slaves of the Dominion, just because the Bajorans want to keep their religion? Why is the Bajorans' need more pressing than the entire Alpha Quadrant's?
No one said that it is, and as the Federation did eventually attempt to close the wormhole, it's clear that they didn't think any misgivings expressed by Bajor were worth risking the safety of their government. Having said that, taking an action as drastic as placing mines or collapsing the wormhole entrance isn't something anyone should do unless all other options have been exhausted.

cannicks wrote:
As for an act of war, well in Call to Arms this was based on blockage of free transit.
No, it wasn't. The mines were placed to prevent the Dominion from increasing the size of their fleet in the Alpha Quadrant.

cannicks wrote:
However in season 3, Cardassia hadn't joined the Dominion as yet, and there were no large regular convoys from the Gamma Quadrant to Cardassia Prime. By that reasoning, the attempt to collapse the wormhole in Season 5 would have been an act of war also.
No, it wouldn't. Placing mines in a star system is an act of war, not collapsing a wormhole with the use of deflector technology. You're talking about two completely different things. As to why the mines were finally placed in "A Call to Arms," Sisko concluded that war was already inevitable and that placing the mines was necessary for the safety of the Federation.

cannicks wrote:
Also, the Prophets' own Emissary (of course Captain Ben) designated the plan himself to collapse it and the Bajorans largely agreed.
Not entirely accurate. Kira voiced several concerns during the briefing where it was talked about. Sisko responded by telling her that it was a better option than Bajor being attacked by a Dominion fleet. He wasn't making the decision as the Emissary but as a Starfleet officer.

cannicks wrote:
I don't see why an entire quadrant must be threatened just because some whiny planet won't see their gods again. But then again, very few Bajorans ever had seen the Prophets or the wormhole.
Once again, no one is making that argument. As the Federation decided to try collapsing the wormhole and later to place mines near the entrance, they demonstrated that they were ultimately more concerned with the quadrant's safety than they were about any backlash from the Bajorans.

That said, remember that almost three years had passed since first contact with the Dominion. The Bajorans had a much better understanding of the threat they represented. Their relationship with the Federation was also much stronger, so it's likely that they were much more willing to follow any plan Starfleet came up with.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 11:19 PM   #15
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Why didn't the Federation simply mine the wormhole after the Searc

They didn't just destroy the entrance to the wormhole because they thought they always had the option of doing so.
JirinPanthosa is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bajoran wormhole, dominion war

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.