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Old June 26 2013, 08:34 PM   #31
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

cannicks wrote: View Post
psychiatry is evil.

hopefully the Federation would have realised that.
Evil based on what? Where's the evidence to support your claim?

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Old June 26 2013, 08:44 PM   #32
Jon1701
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Erm.... Psyc test anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47NFTkAxeeY

One assumes Barclay passed.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:52 PM   #33
Charles Phipps
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
He obviously has an unhealthy addiction to the holodeck, when prevents him from being able to relate to real members of the crew. And for the intents and purposes that the crew relies on each other to be healthy, both physically and mentally, I find it hard to believe that a captain wouldn't restrict his access to the holodeck.
He doesn't have an addiction to the holodeck so much as he uses it to rag on the crew. Also, insulting the Captain and First Officer via musketeer fights seem less troubling than making Captain Picard so you can phaser him or sleeping with Troi/Crusher (which might be firing offenses).

And OF COURSE he would fail a psychiatric examination! Working on a star ship requires both working in and living in a social situation, constantly. You don't get many chances to be alone and your ability to not only devise solutions but to convince your coworkers to trust your judgement with their lives is vitally important.

I feel terrible for anyone who's ever had to work with that guy. What a loser...
Having met many Navy nerds, I'd disagree.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:55 PM   #34
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Having met many Navy nerds, I'd disagree.
As would I. I don't know many in the military, but I've met plenty of people in my line of work who've given me more than enough reason to question their sanity. Barclay may have been weird, but no more so than anyone else aboard Enterprise. I think he was just another victim of not being a part of Picard's inner-circle. We've seen how the Enterprise senior staff treats outsiders they don't like.

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Old June 27 2013, 12:03 AM   #35
Charles Phipps
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Barclay stutters and avoids people, which is hardly a firing offense. Look at Odo.

Really, I'd be more upset about his chronic lateness, which is intolerable.
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Old June 27 2013, 12:27 AM   #36
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
Sure, the holodecks are just for recreation. That doesn't mean that one cannot abuse recreational things...

He obviously has an unhealthy addiction to the holodeck, when prevents him from being able to relate to real members of the crew. And for the intents and purposes that the crew relies on each other to be healthy, both physically and mentally, I find it hard to believe that a captain wouldn't restrict his access to the holodeck.

And OF COURSE he would fail a psychiatric examination! Working on a star ship requires both working in and living in a social situation, constantly. You don't get many chances to be alone and your ability to not only devise solutions but to convince your coworkers to trust your judgement with their lives is vitally important.

I feel terrible for anyone who's ever had to work with that guy. What a loser...
Most of the times we say Barclay he was able to perform his duties, so I can't see an issue there.

I found social situtations difficult, doesn't mean I can't interact for as long as I need to. As for alone time, it would appear that he has his own quarters to goto at the end of the day and be alone if he wishes.

As for your last comment, if a co-worker gives off the impression that someone is a loser it can re-enforce the other person can pick up on and it becomes a self fufulling thing. For those with low self confidence and/or esteem or have suffered from them, the thought that others thing you are a loser/not worthy etc.. can nag away at the bag of the mind lowering even further what little of those they have.
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Old June 27 2013, 12:57 AM   #37
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Barclay stutters and avoids people, which is hardly a firing offense. Look at Odo.
Well, Odo almost was fired after Starfleet decided they'd rather have Eddington in charge of security than him. But I digress...

Charles Phipps wrote:
Really, I'd be more upset about his chronic lateness, which is intolerable.
Seems Dax had that problem, too. Of course, how would anyone fire someone who looks like Jadzia?

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Old June 27 2013, 01:35 AM   #38
The Wormhole
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
Sure, the holodecks are just for recreation. That doesn't mean that one cannot abuse recreational things...

He obviously has an unhealthy addiction to the holodeck, when prevents him from being able to relate to real members of the crew. And for the intents and purposes that the crew relies on each other to be healthy, both physically and mentally, I find it hard to believe that a captain wouldn't restrict his access to the holodeck.
I'm sure there are restrictions, mostly related to people booking holodeck time, eg the computer probably won't let someone use it if someone else has it booked. The only reason anyone would have to step in is if Barclay spent so much time in there it interfered with his duties, in which case it's up to Geordi as his superior to deal with it, and if things aren't resolved Riker steps in. At no point does Security need to get involved, unless it can somehow be proven that Barclay was endangering the ship and crew. And a holographic representation of Wesley Crusher stuffing his face with pie doesn't fit the criteria.

And OF COURSE he would fail a psychiatric examination! Working on a star ship requires both working in and living in a social situation, constantly. You don't get many chances to be alone and your ability to not only devise solutions but to convince your coworkers to trust your judgement with their lives is vitally important.

I feel terrible for anyone who's ever had to work with that guy. What a loser...
Teamwork works both ways. Yes, Barclay's withdrawn attitude and antisocial behaviour make him the weak link among the engineering staff, but at the same time his co-workers could try working with him, drawing him out of his reclusiveness and encourage him to give his input, to make him part of the team. Isn't that basically the point of Hollow Pursuits?
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Old June 27 2013, 02:03 AM   #39
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Makes good drama, but also makes the Starfleet brass appear to be incompetent in their recruiting/promotion process.
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I worked in a government department for almost 25 years, so I hear you there!

Barclay was in a downward spiral.

He felt awkward in social situations, so retreated to the holodeck. But, because he found refuge there, he found it more awkward to deal with social situations, so, he spends more time in the holodeck!

Fortunately, rather than just leaving it unchecked, which would have probably let to poor performance reviews and disciplinary action, his superiors and Troi addressed the problem.

Okay, so the guy isn't going to be dancing on tables at parties, but he can deal with people much better than before Hollow Pursuits.
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Old June 27 2013, 04:38 AM   #40
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Didn't TOS have one guy who DID fail a Psych test do he couldn't be a Starfleet Officer? That guy from the "Roman Planet" episode?
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Old June 27 2013, 04:49 AM   #41
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

cannicks wrote: View Post
psychiatry is evil.

hopefully the Federation would have realised that.
Psychiatry's not evil, we just usually do it wrong.

For every five people who are prescribed SSRIs, one benefits, and four get addicted and experience symptoms worse than the disease. But that doesn't mean that one doesn't benefit.

Also people who are intimidated by authority figures just immediately put up their defenses around psychiatrists and most of them have no idea how to deal with that, and also have no idea how to relate to people who are really independent-minded.

But that doesn't mean they couldn't get better to a point where they are beneficial.

When I was 10 I was a lot like Barcalay so they sent me to a psychiatrist. I avoided talking about things that were personal and we pretty much just played with toys and played cards. My school wanted to get me diagnosed with OCD, but in my first session I wore a really stained shirt and the psychiatrist just kinda said "Ummno".

Later a guy just gave me social feedback and pointers for what I was doing wrong, and my social life improved instantly. That should be the role of psychiatrists with socially awkward people. Give them useful social feedback, let them discover how their behavior is perceived and get them pointers on how to make people interested in them.

Social awkwardness and anxiety is not a psychological disorder. It is a lack of the social skillset that most people develop on their own.

Last edited by JirinPanthosa; June 27 2013 at 05:05 AM.
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Old June 27 2013, 01:15 PM   #42
The Wormhole
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Didn't TOS have one guy who DID fail a Psych test do he couldn't be a Starfleet Officer? That guy from the "Roman Planet" episode?
Indeed he did.
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Old June 27 2013, 01:31 PM   #43
1001001
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
For every five people who are prescribed SSRIs, one benefits, and four get addicted and experience symptoms worse than the disease.
80% of patients become addicted to SSRI's? That is not correct. SSRI's are not addictive.

As for Barclay, I wonder if the Federation has some sort of equivalent to the Americans with Disabilities Act. Reasonable accommodations and so forth. If he can do his job, then it shouldn't be a problem.

And if he struggles, do they have an equivalent to an Employment Assistance Program? It kind of seems like he was doing something similar by having to see Counselor Troi.

I would think in the enlightened future that there is room for people with all kinds of challenges, and tolerance, support, and compassion for people who temporarily backslide. We (theoretically) try to do that now with ADA and EAP. Barclay does not appear psychotic or dangerous. And he appears competent at his job, generally speaking.
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Old June 27 2013, 03:54 PM   #44
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
For every five people who are prescribed SSRIs, one benefits, and four get addicted and experience symptoms worse than the disease.
This statistic is completely bogus. SSRIs are not addictive in the way that illicit drugs are. The danger of taking an SSRI is that the brain adapts fairly quickly to the medication, so patients should avoid stopping SSRIs abruptly as doing so may precipitate symptom rebound.

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Old June 27 2013, 06:17 PM   #45
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
What a loser...
I find that quite offensive.

Last edited by Crazyewok; June 27 2013 at 08:46 PM.
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