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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 10 2013, 04:52 PM   #1
xvicente
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Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but this

ST2009 was hard to swallow for many because of that scene of the Enterprise under construction.

Now it's a f$%&ing submarine!? come ON!!!!!!

Space ships don't belong in the atmosphere, much, much less underwater.

I understand suspension of disbelief, but this require not suspension but banning of disbelief, kicking and shouting it out of one's mind.

The only spaceship ever in Star Trek to hit water (The Klingon ship in STIV - The One with The Whales) simply sank.

Cool fx though.
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Old July 10 2013, 04:56 PM   #2
BillJ
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post
The only spaceship ever in Star Trek to hit water (The Klingon ship in STIV - The One with The Whales) simply sank.
We don't know how well it would've handled water if it hadn't crashed into the bay because it had no power.

This topic has been pretty thoroughly dissected and starships have been seen to have prevailed in far worse conditions. See: The Immunity Syndrome
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Old July 10 2013, 04:58 PM   #3
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post
ST2009 was hard to swallow for many because of that scene of the Enterprise under construction.

Now it's a f$%&ing submarine!? come ON!!!!!!

Space ships don't belong in the atmosphere, much, much less underwater.

I understand suspension of disbelief, but this require not suspension but banning of disbelief, kicking and shouting it out of one's mind.

The only spaceship ever in Star Trek to hit water (The Klingon ship in STIV - The One with The Whales) simply sank.

Cool fx though.
So, you're saying the stress put on a hull by being underwater far outweighs the stress on a hull fighting to flee a black hole, or travelling through Fluidic Space, or submerging in S3 Enterprise, flying into Coronas, or just simply flying at high warp...? Seriously, how can being underwater put more stress on a Hull than a Black hole or flying into a Sun's Corona?
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Old July 10 2013, 05:10 PM   #4
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post

3- I used to hate the Enterprise being built on Earth, but the underwater scene and liftoff was awesome. More so than the recover from the dive at the end of the movie.
What happened to that?
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Old July 10 2013, 05:33 PM   #5
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

Someone needs to re-post that infographic of all the similar things the Enterprise has done prior to this. Was it a creation of Locutus of Bored?

An underwater Enterprise is nothing. The Enterprise built on Earth is nothing. Watch "Parallels" and see a Galaxy-class starship being built on the surface of Mars.
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Old July 10 2013, 06:11 PM   #6
xvicente
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

Sindatur wrote: View Post
So, you're saying the stress put on a hull by being underwater far outweighs the stress on a hull fighting to flee a black hole, or travelling through Fluidic Space, or submerging in S3 Enterprise, flying into Coronas, or just simply flying at high warp...? Seriously, how can being underwater put more stress on a Hull than a Black hole or flying into a Sun's Corona?
I don't know of those events and I'm not sure how those compare with submersion. Not saying that it is unreasonable to do so.

But I know the canonic, well documented history of Kruge's spaceship: for starters, it took two torpedoes (the same amount of firepower that ripped Reliant's engine off), maybe got some punishment from being near the explosions of the Enterprise and the Genesis Planet (alright, maybe not), then time-warped 6 centuries (roundtrip) near the Sun (now we are talking about stress) at almost warp 10 (which was so redline that Scotty had to refill the dilithium crystals for the return leg), got neutralized by the probe on return--

-- and still, nothing indicated by then that it wouldn't keep on ticking.

THEN it hit water and promptly went glub glub glub. So spaceships can take anything except being submerged.

If I were to dive (got it? "dive" ) into treknology, those warp engines are said to collect hydrogen from space through those front globes, and the average density of gas in the Galaxy is of only one atom per cubic centimeter. In other words they are awesome suckers. How can that work in a absurdly denser medium, like saltwater?


Kruezerman wrote: View Post
xvicente wrote: View Post

3- I used to hate the Enterprise being built on Earth, but the underwater scene and liftoff was awesome. More so than the recover from the dive at the end of the movie.
What happened to that?
oops. lol, wait, I never said it wasn't awesome.
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Old July 10 2013, 06:16 PM   #7
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

Remember the village-sized holoship hidden underwater in Star Trek: Insurrection?
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Old July 10 2013, 06:17 PM   #8
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post

If I were to dive (got it? "dive" ) into treknology, those warp engines are said to collect hydrogen from space through those front globes, and the average density of gas in the Galaxy is of only one atom per cubic centimeter. In other words they are awesome suckers. How can that work in a absurdly denser medium, like saltwater?

Since you have thrusters and impulse drive, you don't need warp drive. So you can simply turn those hydrogen collectors off.
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Old July 10 2013, 07:14 PM   #9
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post
I don't know of those events and I'm not sure how those compare with submersion. Not saying that it is unreasonable to do so.

But I know the canonic, well documented history of Kruge's spaceship: for starters, it took two torpedoes (the same amount of firepower that ripped Reliant's engine off), maybe got some punishment from being near the explosions of the Enterprise and the Genesis Planet (alright, maybe not), then time-warped 6 centuries (roundtrip) near the Sun (now we are talking about stress) at almost warp 10 (which was so redline that Scotty had to refill the dilithium crystals for the return leg), got neutralized by the probe on return--

-- and still, nothing indicated by then that it wouldn't keep on ticking.

THEN it hit water and promptly went glub glub glub. So spaceships can take anything except being submerged.
At this point I'm getting the impression that you're just taking the piss.

If not, I guess it needs to be tried again. The ship was disabled. No power, no shields, no engines, no nothing. We have no idea whether or not it could have handled being submerged if that hadn't been the case.

It's also worth pointing out that all ships are not created equal, and a bird of prey is not the Enterprise.
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Old July 10 2013, 07:25 PM   #10
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

I don't care that it was underwater, I just thought the way it flew through the air was as if it was in space. I also don't see how the propulsion would work under water, unless there were a mass of propellers I missed.
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Old July 10 2013, 08:35 PM   #11
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

The giant space amoeba in The Immunity Syndrome is basically a giant blob of water! Enterprise went in there ok!

Also flew in the atmosphere no problem in 'Tomorrow is Yesterday'

Both TOS and 47 years old!

Holoship was hidden underwater in Insurrection and at some stage it took off and went into orbit under its own power, all while cloaked as well!!
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Old July 10 2013, 08:36 PM   #12
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

NCC-1701-B wrote: View Post
I don't care that it was underwater, I just thought the way it flew through the air was as if it was in space. I also don't see how the propulsion would work under water, unless there were a mass of propellers I missed.

It's future/made-up technology, who knows how it works?
200 years ago people wouldn't understand how half of the stuff works we think of as ordinary.
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Old July 10 2013, 08:58 PM   #13
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

xvicente wrote: View Post
ST2009 was hard to swallow for many because of that scene of the Enterprise under construction.
Why ? Enterprise was always able to handle atmospheric entry.

Space ships don't belong in the atmosphere, much, much less underwater.
It's an amphibious starship.

NCC-1701-B wrote: View Post
I don't care that it was underwater, I just thought the way it flew through the air was as if it was in space. I also don't see how the propulsion would work under water, unless there were a mass of propellers I missed.
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Old July 10 2013, 09:12 PM   #14
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

Flake wrote: View Post
The giant space amoeba in The Immunity Syndrome is basically a giant blob of water! Enterprise went in there ok!
Actually it was worse than that...

The Enterprise flew through the space ameba in The Immunity Syndrome, and Spock described it as...

SPOCK: "Readings coming in now, Captain. Length, approximately eleven thousand miles. Width varying from two thousand to three thousand miles. Outer layer studded with space debris and waste. Interior consists of protoplasm, varying from a firmer gelatinous layer to a semi-fluid central mass. Condition, living."

So in TOS, the Enterprise flew through a mass of fluidic-gelatinous material.
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Old July 10 2013, 09:17 PM   #15
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Re: Having the Enterprise built on Earth was unbelievable enough but t

Belz... wrote: View Post
It's an amphibious starship.
For some reason this made me laugh out loud. Salamander starships.
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