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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 26 2013, 02:51 PM   #271
BillJ
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Believe me. man of steel did well because it has Nolan's name on it. superman returns is clearly the better film but no one cares.
I almost didn't go see it because it had Nolan's name attached, The Dark Knight trilogy is pretty dull and meandering. Man of Steel doesn't feel like a Nolan film at all.

Tried to watch Superman Returns the other night, boy does that feel like a Nolan film. Zzzzzzzzzzzz...
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Old June 26 2013, 04:11 PM   #272
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Believe me.
No.

man of steel did well because it has Nolan's name on it.
Repeating it doesn't make it true.

superman returns is clearly the better film but no one cares.
No. People disagree with you. It's not the same thing. Why do so many people have such trouble understanding that their appreciation of a particular thing doesn't mean that objective reality corresponds with said appreciation ?

I just don't know, but Nolan has this thing on fan boys and I don't mean fan boys as an insult.
Those fan boys are a tiny minority.

If Nolan did not produce MOS, there is no way the film would have been a
success at least not with all the negative reviews it got.
You think most people who go see movies give a shit about critics ?

And yeah, as I said some people know who Nolan is, and saying "produced by the director of the Dark Knight" is going to spark interest. But it's not going to make a 200 million movie into a 500 million one by magic.

Another perfect example is After Earth, Sony did not promote the film as a M. Night Shyamalan film. it was simply listed as a Will Smith film. Clearly, Sony did not feel comfortable with putting Shyamalan's name on the film despite the fact that he was the director.
Yeah, and it really helped the movie, right ?

So yeah...Directors and Producers matter a lot when it comes to a film's success.If Nolan were to direct Trek 3, the film will make at least 800 million -1 billion at the box office. Why? because the Nolan name is a powerful name.

Also does it matter? STiD is the most critical acclaimed blockbuster of the summer. Iron man 3 is behind and Man of Steel is far far behind STiD.

Its about the quality and not the quantity.
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Old June 26 2013, 06:29 PM   #273
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote:
superman returns is clearly the better film but no one cares.
"I care." - Luke Skywalker
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Old June 26 2013, 06:41 PM   #274
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Believe me. man of steel did well because it has Nolan's name on it.
Why should anyone believe you? Support your assertion with facts, statistics and reasoning.

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
superman returns is clearly the better film but no one cares. I just don't know, but Nolan has this thing on fan boys and I don't mean fan boys as an insult. Any film he does will be a success because he has a mighty fan boy fan base.
You say that you don't mean "fan boys" as an insult, yet use it in insulting fashion in the very same sentence and in the sentence following. Haven't you learned by now not to do that?
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Old June 26 2013, 06:52 PM   #275
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

After marathoning the original movies and SR the past few days, the stark difference from the first 5 films and MoS really became apparent... MoS was an action movie, while the first 5 were movies with some action in them. The focus was on the characters in the first films. The action was meant to supplement that. In MoS, the action was the point. It was basically "I want to see two kryptonians going at it all out!" and the movie was designed solely to get to that point. It's why the characterisation fell flat, most of the moments felt forced, and the whole ending sequence made no sense in regards to the Superman character. It was never really about the symbol of Superman... it was all about seeing those powers in action with someone equal to him in strength.

Probably why some have been able to enjoy the film... and It's the reason I only grow more tired of it each day. Superman II, even 30 years ago and without the tech to pull off the stunning effects, delivers a far more satisfying and true battle of Kryptonians... if only MoS had understood what Superman is all about and used those effects to enhance it instead of smother it... man it could have been an extremely special movie. I mean, you can see the potential in MoS, but it was just never realised.
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Old June 26 2013, 08:32 PM   #276
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
The only reason why man of steel did so well at the box office is because the film has the Nolan name stamped on it

Nope.

It might shock some folks to learn that over nine out of ten people who go to the movies have no idea who produces, directs or writes a given film. There are only one or two names that are actually well-known to the majority of the general public; Nolan isn't one of them (nor, apropos of nothing, is Whedon or Bay).

The association of certain behind-the-scenes folks with a movie is enough to get the attention of fans and aficionados, which helps to promote a movie - but it's not nearly enough to draw in the audience and make a film a big hit.

Man Of Steel is a better and more accessible movie - and a lot more people give a crap about Superman than Star Trek. It's that simple.
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Believe me. man of steel did well because it has Nolan's name on it.
Why should anyone believe you? Support your assertion with facts, statistics and reasoning.

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
superman returns is clearly the better film but no one cares. I just don't know, but Nolan has this thing on fan boys and I don't mean fan boys as an insult. Any film he does will be a success because he has a mighty fan boy fan base.
You say that you don't mean "fan boys" as an insult, yet use it in insulting fashion in the very same sentence and in the sentence following. Haven't you learned by now not to do that?

Respectfully, I can support my opinion with facts. As I have done my research.

It is no coincidence that most of Nolan films are on IMDB's top 250. Why? because he has huge fan base. Nolan's fan base is like the twilight fan base. His films will always be successful regardless of what the critics think.

here is my back up:

http://mubi.com/topics/which-directo...fanboys?page=6

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...mento-20120815

http://www.angry-assholes.com/article.php?id=24

A lot of his fans also forced rotten tomatoes to shut itself down because his fans (most of them young guys and teen boys) where sending film critics death threats after they gave TDKR negative reviews. here is the link:


http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/rott...of-the-fanboys.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/chris...s-fanboys.html


Also again , I don't mean fan boys as an insult. Most Nolan fans or just comic fans refer to themselves as fan boys. It is not an insult. However I wont use it again since it is classified as insult on this site.

As a person who has a huge and even professional background in media, entertainment and pop culture. I will say that directors and producers and even the actors matter when it comes to a film's success.

I also backed up my opinion as facts when I compared the way WB and Sony promoted and advertised their respective films: Man of Steel and After Earth.

As for those saying people don't care about the critical reception. I will say yes and no on that.

A film with an unknown director or without a solid fan base is likely suffer at the box office if it gets bad reviews.

However a film with a huge fan base like Twilight and Batman will always be bullet proof at the box office because the fans would not care what the critics think.

If anyone wants more proof or want the facts, please it is right in front of you.

The never ending debate of Star Trek vs Star Wars.

All star wars films including episode I and II have been successful at the box office even with the negative reviews and why? ...Well, Star Wars has one of he biggest fan base of all time.

As for Star Trek films?? every star trek films with negative reviews like Nemesis or Final Frontal has always flopped at the box office and why? Trek fan base while been huge in its own right is still behind the Star Wars fan base.

I can prove this as facts:

https://www.facebook.com/StarTrek.UK?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/StarWars.UK?fref=ts


All this things matters. If it didn't, Movie production companies like WB,FOX and Disney would have been bankrupt by now.

I can also give more of my opinions as facts by explaining why Disney chose to have Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers as the face of Disney 5 or 6 years ago.

Let me just say two words: TEEN GIRLS.
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Old June 26 2013, 08:43 PM   #277
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Superman Returns is far inferior to Man Of Steel. Oh, and almost no one knows or cares who Nolan is.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:11 PM   #278
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

If we're going to hang success on a name, I'd say there are plenty of names to go around. I seem to recall people liking 300 a lot, for example. Heck, Superman has a lot of name recognition. And, for some reason, even though he was most famous in a movie from back before the Internet, a lot of people know who Zod is.

It's also hard to dismiss marketing and advertisement, that widely disseminated exciting scenes from the movie, as factors that put butts in seats. They might even see that working and try marketing and advertising future films, through the use of exciting footage from them.

Seriously, the idea that all you need is a placard with one name on it to get people to come see a film is truly ridiculous. The "only reason"? No way.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:21 PM   #279
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Kabraxal wrote: View Post
In MoS, the action was the point.
No.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:27 PM   #280
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Respectfully, I can support my opinion with facts. As I have done my research.
This should be good.

It is no coincidence that most of Nolan films are on IMDB's top 250. Why? because he has huge fan base.
Wait, did you just go from observation to conclusion without the intervening steps ? Yes you did.

A lot of his fans also forced rotten tomatoes to shut itself down because his fans (most of them young guys and teen boys) where sending film critics death threats after they gave TDKR negative reviews.
What does this prove ? ONE person making a death threat or a bomb threat is enough to cause trouble. How does this fact help us assess the number of Nolan fans ?

As a person who has a huge and even professional background in media, entertainment and pop culture. I will say that directors and producers and even the actors matter when it comes to a film's success.
I didn't say it didn't matter, but that wasn't your claim, that it "mattered". You said "The only reason why man of steel did so well at the box office is because the film has the Nolan name stamped on it"

(Emphasis mine)

You made an absolute, easily-refuted statement. It was shown wrong. Now you want to move the goalposts to try and appear like you said something else.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:42 PM   #281
Kabraxal
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Superman Returns is far inferior to Man Of Steel. Oh, and almost no one knows or cares who Nolan is.
First, there are those that disagree with the first statement. ANd second.. if no one knew or care about Nolan, then movies wouldn't use his name as a selling point. They do... so you really need to come up with an actual argument instead of "no they don't!". Inception, MoS, and even the final film of the Batman trilogy were heavily marketed with Nolan's name everywhere. His new film will be the same... so obviously, enough people care if the marketing departments of these films continually use his name so obviously.
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Old June 27 2013, 03:29 AM   #282
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
It is no coincidence that most of Nolan films are on IMDB's top 250. Why? because he has huge fan base.
Sorry, the conclusion does not follow from the observation - not even close. If I say "most of Nolan's films are in the top 250 because they're exceptionally entertaining, and this is why he has fans" I've presented a better argument than yours. That doesn't make me right either, BTW; my reasoning is just a little better.


As a person who has a huge and even professional background in media, entertainment and pop culture.
I doubt it.

I will say that directors and producers and even the actors matter when it comes to a film's success.
"Even the actors?" Even? My friend, the actors matter a great deal more to getting butts in the seats than the directors and producers do. This is why the actors are often paid a great deal more than the people responsible for putting the movie together.

One would think that someone with a "huge, even professional background in media" would be aware of something so basic.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:01 AM   #283
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

As a person who has a huge and even professional background in media, entertainment and pop culture. I will say that directors and producers and even the actors matter when it comes to a film's success.
All this time I thought you were 13 or something. I have avoided disagreeing with you in the shipper threads in the past because of this assumption!
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Old June 27 2013, 07:54 AM   #284
serenitytrek1
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Its so cute (sarcasm), how my comments gets attacked. However I will stick too facts.

Also, I am not 13.

Secondly, It was not one person that led rotten tomatoes to shut itself down. it was a legion of Nolan fans who were sending critics death threats. DID YOU NOT SEE THE LINK I SENT?

Here is the proof (again):

http://www.examiner.com/article/rott...-death-threats

Also again, the fact that a lot of people have chosen to disregard the box office earnings of star wars and star trek just proves that people are leaving in self denial when it comes to a franchise, its success and its fan base.

Lastly, if directors, producers and actors don't matter as most of you say, then I want you to at least tell me why Sony Studios chose not to promote After Earth as a M. Night Shyamalan film.

Heck, his name did not even appear in any of the posters or trailers despite the fact that he was the film's director. Sony chose to promote the film as a Will Smith's film. The same Will Smith who has been called the most bankable actor in Hollywood.

Coincidence much?

I think not.

Lastly I suggest you all read this article on Huffington Post on why STiD underperformed at the box office:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3302983.html.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:11 AM   #285
Belz...
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Its so cute (sarcasm), how my comments gets attacked.
Why is it cute ? This is exactly how discussion works: your arguments -- not you -- are attacked and critiqued.

Secondly, It was not one person that led rotten tomatoes to shut itself down. it was a legion of Nolan fans who were sending critics death threats.
How many is a legion ? Are you saying they ALL participated ? If not, how do you know how many Nolan fans there are ? How do you know, in fact, that these peopel are Nolan fans at all ?

Here is the proof (again):
Wow. If you consider that proof, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. Seriously, the link does not mention "huge" numbers or any number at all. The most it said was "some".

Also again, the fact that a lot of people have chosen to disregard the box office earnings of star wars and star trek just proves that people are leaving in self denial when it comes to a franchise, its success and its fan base.
And another goalpost moving. We are talking about PRODUCERS. Not franchises.

Lastly, if directors, producers and actors don't matter as most of you say, then I want you to at least tell me why Sony Studios chose not to promote After Earth as a M. Night Shyamalan film.
Now this question is flatly dishonest. I've already corrected you on that. No one said it didn't matter. We disagreed that it was the ONLY reason Man of Steel was successful.
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