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Old June 18 2013, 05:41 AM   #1
JROTCcadetMajor
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Starfleet JROTC prgram

Does the Starfleet have a JROTC or an cadet program outside of school grounds like Civil Air Patrol and Sea Cadets for youth to participate in? Would the Federation reject the idea of having a JROTC program because they may be opposed to "militarizing" youth? What about college level ROTC programs. You can't have all your officers come from one service academy. By having ROTC at all your civilian colleges you are helping make your officer corps more diverse. Not everyone can get into the Star Fleet Academy.

http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/

http://www.seacadets.org/public/

http://www.afoats.af.mil/afjrotc/
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Old June 18 2013, 01:38 PM   #2
R. Star
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

I dunno... having Wesley on the bridge would seem to count in some form or fashion. Not to mention that entry test he took in season 1 when he was what? 15? The super nerd gets in the other three have to grow up.

Obviously to maintain a massive fleet they would have to have more than one facility turning out officers. I'd just think it's the "West Point" of Star Trek so to say and probably every member world has their own version that's less prestigious.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:46 PM   #3
Timo
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Well, everybody says they went to the Starfleet Academy. And everybody who is anybody seems to have done so at the one (and only?) facility at San Francisco, where they all met the mysterious groundskeeper Boothby.

Possibly the vast UFP sees fit to put all of its officer-hopefuls through one unifying experience, because diversity is not desired - it is something the UFP already has in annoying abundance, and uniformity is the one thing missing from the equation.

Whatever the situation in the Trek reality, not only do we never hear of an officer who would not have gone through the San Francisco facility, we even hear Dr. Bashir (admittely jokingly) suggest the enlisted man O'Brien hadn't been paying attention at Academy lectures! Perhaps even enlisted training is centered at the California facility, and while the studies aren't academic as such, the general name of the facility is used anyway? Or perhaps enlisted specialists do take some academic studies?

While Starfleet has facilities all across the Federation and beyond, none seem to concentrate on offering training as such. But in "Coming of Age" we see a facility that organizes entry exams for the Academy (supposedly in the rare underage supergenius category for the likes of Wesley), and it seems to be an uncommon service for a Starfleet facility to provide: the starship had to specifically go there apparently solely to let Wesley take the exam.

This touches upon the entry age question: we don't know whether it's uniform even for any given single species or not...

Civilian training might in contrast be extremely diverse. It doesn't seem as if all children would have to go through any sort of common education, and certainly not at a specified age: some youngsters are shown already studying calculus when the older Jake Sisko has yet to tackle basic algebra.

As for "wargames" organizations outside Starfleet, we once hear of the Federation Naval Patrol, which supposedly is a youngsters' organization for playing with old boats. But Tom Paris considered it as an alternative to going to Starfleet, not as a pathway of eventually getting to Starfleet.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old June 18 2013, 02:03 PM   #4
Crazyewok
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Timo wrote: View Post
As for "wargames" organizations outside Starfleet, we once hear of the Federation Naval Patrol, which supposedly is a youngsters' organization for playing with old boats. But Tom Paris considered it as an alternative to going to Starfleet, not as a pathway of eventually getting to Starfleet.
I always figured it to be exactly what is says on the tin.

Im guessing it does ocean research and search and rescue on planetry oceans as well as build under water facilitys.

There is a lot a navy could still do.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:12 PM   #5
Timo
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

That seems extremely unlikely, because the one fact we know about the Federal Naval Patrol is that it would be Tom Paris' opportunity to experience ancient sailing ships.

Sure, sails are fun and pretty and ecological and all that. But they are not a viable means of doing business on the oceans of Earth or any comparable planet. And there'd be no point of having them be ancient - unless it indeed is the very point, and the organization exists for offering enjoyable experiences.

Whether there exists a navy... Well, there's always Starfleet. Nobody has indicated they would not operate in wet environments, and we have seen them do business in a great variety of environments already.

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Old June 18 2013, 02:21 PM   #6
Crazyewok
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Timo wrote: View Post
That seems extremely unlikely, because the one fact we know about the Federal Naval Patrol is that it would be Tom Paris' opportunity to experience ancient sailing ships.

Sure, sails are fun and pretty and ecological and all that. But they are not a viable means of doing business on the oceans of Earth or any comparable planet. And there'd be no point of having them be ancient - unless it indeed is the very point, and the organization exists for offering enjoyable experiences.

Whether there exists a navy... Well, there's always Starfleet. Nobody has indicated they would not operate in wet environments, and we have seen them do business in a great variety of environments already.

Timo Saloniemi
But the royal navy still operates ancient sailing ships too but that does not mean its only operates obselete outdated ships (if it did there would be no British Falkland ). It keeps them around for traditional purposes.

It stands to reason the federation navy patrol does the same. It has a high tec branch that handles the exploration of oceans and search and rescue ect But also operates traditinal ships for fun. It seem starfleet does not handle all scientific reseach in the federation so other branches obviosly exist.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:46 PM   #7
Timo
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Betting on getting to play with ancient ships by joining an organization that operates one of those per a hundred modern ones doesn't sound like something Tom Paris would be interested in doing. Sure, he's a betting man, but still...

We're already talking about diminishing vistas here: the FNP isn't "Starfleet at sea" but "just" a research organization. We could just as well go all the way and reduce it to Boy Scouts of the Seas or whatever.

Or we could decide it is a seagoing paramilitary/police organization after all (after all, the name suggests it "patrols", which is pretty telling). But why would this function be taken away from Starfleet, which seems to do all the other patrolling in the UFP, including lots of "civilian" stuff such as policing?

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Old June 18 2013, 02:57 PM   #8
Crazyewok
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Timo wrote: View Post

We're already talking about diminishing vistas here: the FNP isn't "Starfleet at sea" but "just" a research organization. We could just as well go all the way and reduce it to Boy Scouts of the Seas or whatever.
I would hardly call it JUST a research organisation. I mean the ocean just on this planet is one of our most complex eco systems. It would be vital to learn about oceans as much as possible due to its implications on terraforming.

Timo wrote: View Post
Or we could decide it is a seagoing paramilitary/police organization after all (after all, the name suggests it "patrols", which is pretty telling).
It may cover this too. As I said search and rescue would most likely cover this.

Timo wrote: View Post
But why would this function be taken away from Starfleet,
Clue is in the name "star"

Timo wrote: View Post
which seems to do all the other patrolling in the UFP, including lots of "civilian" stuff such as policing?
Im not sure I agree with this. Yes we see Starfleet being deployed as police but only as in martial law or when trying to capture starfleet fugitives. In search for spock we see a civilian police marshall.
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Old June 18 2013, 03:32 PM   #9
T'Girl
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Timo wrote: View Post
Tom Paris' opportunity to experience ancient sailing ships
When a boat or ship leaves dock and goes on a voyager upon the waters, it is "sailing." It a fairly common usage of the term.

From the prospective of Tom Paris aboard a starship, a marine vessel with a high powered pump jet propulsion system would be quaint and "ancient."
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Old June 18 2013, 03:36 PM   #10
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Timo wrote: View Post
Well, everybody says they went to the Starfleet Academy. And everybody who is anybody seems to have done so at the one (and only?) facility at San Francisco, where they all met the mysterious groundskeeper Boothby.
That really doesn't make much sense, does it? A state with a military made up of 99% officers protecting hundreds of planets and hundreds of billions of people and they all get trained in the same school.
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Old June 18 2013, 04:21 PM   #11
Timo
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

Why not? If they had "national" schools, they would develop "national" interests, and become traitors the whole lot of them. Romans didn't let their officers train in their native lands, either: forced displacement was the way to go to ensure loyalty.

And a school with a million pupils is a very realistic prospect; factually, several Indian universities today are that big already. It might well be worth it to turn the entire San Francisco into a Starfleet campus (we never really did see it act in any other role).

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Old June 18 2013, 04:38 PM   #12
Pavonis
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

A single academy for the officer corps is the best way to build an esprit de corps among an otherwise diverse society. Why would there need to be more than one campus on more than one planet? What's unrealistic about it? The academy apparently never has more cadets than a Vulcan can memorize the files for.
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Old June 18 2013, 10:14 PM   #13
Timo
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Re: Starfleet JROTC prgram

...Although how many that might be is pretty difficult to establish. Spock had memorized the specs of a random comet in "Balance of Terror" (the implication being that he knew the thick reference book on the subject of comets by heart), had decisive knowledge of extreme esoterica such as Brahms' notation handwriting, and could perform repairs on par with Scotty without consulting manuals. For all we know, he had the Federation phone books for the years 2217-2267 memorized as well...

Not that Vulcans would have explicitly been credited with eidetic memories. But if Cardassians can have them, why not Vulcans?

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