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Old June 18 2013, 11:27 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Ask Geordi in Samaritan Snare. He was getting flung across the room and screaming out in pain every time the Pakleds stunned him.
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Old June 18 2013, 11:45 PM   #17
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Even on stun setting it can be harmful if done too often. Remember Samaritan Snare (TNG) ?
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Old June 18 2013, 11:53 PM   #18
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

And, OTOH, getting hit by a kill beam may be survivable to a degree. Your body suddenly sporting a charred hole somewhere doesn't necessarily tell whether there's a shallow pit there, or a fairly clean hole, or perhaps a huge cavity. Hence our doctor heroes sometimes just shaking their heads at such a wound, yet sometimes springing to action and even achieving results.

It's probably much like gunshot: the hit may mess you up inside real bad even if the puncture wound is insignificant. And in battlefield conditions, you only want to mess up a pound of flesh inside your opponent, to save on batteries, whereas in a peacetime adventure (such as all the TOS ones save for "Errand of Mercy" where our heroes went covert, and "Omega Glory" where the battlefield indeed got littered with bodies, even if off screen), you show mercy and vaporize the whole victim even though this drains your gun's reserves.

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Old June 18 2013, 11:57 PM   #19
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Zefram Cochrane apparently had a headache in First Contact after Riker stunned him. Though that could have been because of his drinking. Or both.
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Old June 20 2013, 07:30 PM   #20
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Depends on the script.

Remember getting stunned in the face at point blank range kills.

Which normally wouldn't make any sense, but maybe Valeris just poured it on.

Think it depends on the settings of stun.
Based on the marks left on Burke and Samno, a sustained burst of heavy stun, say five to ten seconds, less than six inches from the head, is probably what killed them. It doesn't have to be the face, just the head. And Valeris, being a Vulcan, had the strength to hold them while she did it.
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Old June 20 2013, 07:52 PM   #21
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Timo wrote: View Post

It's probably much like gunshot: the hit may mess you up inside real bad even if the puncture wound is insignificant.
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The Jem'Hedar carbines seem to work that way. Redshirts tend to die quick, but when we are supposed to care about the character, they go more slowly. That one redshirt in "The Ship," I think it was, died after several days of internal bleeding. Eddington didn't go down until after several shots, and Sisko acted like he could have survived if he didn't stay to be the hero. Nog had to get his leg amputated.
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Old June 20 2013, 07:53 PM   #22
Timo
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

And Valeris, being a Vulcan, had the strength to hold them while she did it.
Umm, why would she need to hold anybody?

I mean, she's killing people by firing a phaser at them at stun setting. Surely she would start by firing a phaser at them at stun setting, making them unable to resist the subsequent sustained head shots.

The Jem'Hedar carbines seem to work that way.
They are said to transport a toxin into the victim. But for all we know, phasers are also weaponized transporters... At least we saw a phaser transport nanoprobes to the victim in VOY "Macrocosm".

Perhaps the stun setting of a phaser consists simply of a beam that transports a tranquilizing chemical into the victim?

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Old June 21 2013, 06:09 AM   #23
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well if you go by the TNG tech manual, I suspect settings 4 thu 6 will sting a little.

From memory in the 24th century

settings 1-3 are the stun settings fromm light to eavy
Settings 4-6 cause thermal damage.
Setting 7 effectively kills
Setting 8 is vaporise

Settings 9-16 are only availble on Type II and Type III rifles

By which time you are getting into melting metals, destroying rock, possible penetration of shields etc...

I was under the impression that 1-8 = stun and 9-16 = kill.
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Old June 21 2013, 10:24 PM   #24
Timo
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Well, we saw the tiny Type 1 hand phaser vaporize targets in TNG (say, Q's "animal thing" Napoleonic soldiers), and its settings supposedly only went up to 8 (or at least there were eight indicator lights in the row).

We also saw the eight-light setting of a Type 2 phaser vaporize Yuta in "The Vengeance Factor".

Basically, then, onscreen events aren't in conflict with what the TNG Tech Manual says, as listed by MacLeod. And although we never quite witnessed setting 16 doing as much damage as the Manual promises (it just drilled a hole in rock in "Chain of Command I"), at least it was claimed to level entire buildings in "Frame of Mind", in accordance with the Tech Man.

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Old June 21 2013, 10:27 PM   #25
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

It probably feels like a stun gun without the convulsing.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:28 AM   #26
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Timo wrote: View Post
And Valeris, being a Vulcan, had the strength to hold them while she did it.
Umm, why would she need to hold anybody?

I mean, she's killing people by firing a phaser at them at stun setting. Surely she would start by firing a phaser at them at stun setting, making them unable to resist the subsequent sustained head shots.

Timo Saloniemi
Reasonable. And it makes more sense, too. Being a Vulcan, she'd shy away from being sadistic.
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Old June 22 2013, 04:29 AM   #27
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Does it hurt to be shot by a phaser?

It doesn't help.
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Old June 22 2013, 04:30 AM   #28
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
Reasonable. And it makes more sense, too. Being a Vulcan, she'd shy away from being sadistic.
While I'd like to think she would --- a Kantian could argue that the evidence of Mirror Spock's openness to decency indicates that she would --- I'm not sure it follows. After all, a person who's committed to murder has accepted at least some sadism. And if the point is to kill a person without being traceable, whether the person suffers along the way is irrelevant.
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Old June 22 2013, 10:04 PM   #29
Timo
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Why would murder equate sadism? Even in the loosest interpretation of the word, sadism involves taking pleasure in an action - but conducting an action and taking pleasure in an action are fundamentally unrelated things.

General musings: Valeris supposedly was highly positioned in the conspiracy, as she knew key facts no random hitman need know. She'd thus probably have a lot riding on it. But then comes the "Logically, you have to fire" scene - and she doesn't kill Spock.

Three ways to read that. One, she was decent to the point of illogic, and would rather see millions suffer in the distance (the thing the conspiracy supposedly wanted to avoid, by shifting all the suffering to the Klingons instead) than inflict damage on somebody she can see, hear and touch. Two, she always was in the conspiracy for reasons of pure personal benefit (what those might be, we don't know), and sacrificing herself to the cause would not be part of her agenda under any circumstances. Three, she saw immediately that Spock was wrong/lying, and that killing him and Kirk and the rest would not benefit the conspiracy at this point.

As for the phaser angle of all this... Valeris knows it's an ambush already, down at the sickbay, so firing a kill phaser at Spock and tripping the alarms should not bother her much. But perhaps it's an ambush set up by a very small cabal of trusted officers (since the very fact of setting up the ambush reveals that Kirk and his friends don't know for sure who their enemies are)? In that case, Valeris could kill them all and make it look as if some other assassin X dunnit; she might benefit from not tripping the alarms in that case. Plenty of ways to kill a victim in Sickbay if Valeris stuns him first with a phaser....

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Old June 24 2013, 01:11 AM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Does it hurt to be shot by phaser?

Murder and sadism are not the same thing. Sadism is taking pleasure in inflicting pain. Some murders are strictly for personal gain, and you can't call those sadistic.
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