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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Choice of Futures.
Outstanding 54 50.47%
Above Average 39 36.45%
Average 10 9.35%
Below Average 2 1.87%
Poor 2 1.87%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 3 2013, 08:35 PM   #121
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Is Thomas Vanderbilt supposed to be a descendant of the famous Vanderbilt family?
I have no idea. Vanderbilt was established as the first UFP president in a newspaper clipping created for Picard's family album in Generations, but never seen on camera, so it's apocryphal. But The Romulan War mentioned him as Earth's defense minister during the war and interior minister at the time of the UFP's founding ceremony. I figured having the first president be the wartime defense minister fit into the narrative I had in mind, so I went with the apocryphal source.
Just my two cents:

I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
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Old July 3 2013, 09:18 PM   #122
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
It'd be rather ridiculous to condemn him from coming from a family which had money in the past. It's also self-defeating since a Post-Scarcity economy means EVERYONE is ridiculously rich in the future. Having famous ancestors shouldn't dissuade someone from public office out of a sense of peak at past social injustices.
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Old July 3 2013, 09:31 PM   #123
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

^ Yeah, unless one is suggesting (and hoping) all the Vanderbilts died in WW III, what's the harm in simply being from a family like that?
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Old July 3 2013, 09:39 PM   #124
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I hope Vanderbilt isn't depicted as a member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. Star Trek is supposed to be about, amongst other things, a future when humanity has moved beyond Capitalism and its elitist social hierarchies; it would be kind of disgusting if it were to implicitly celebrate Capitalist elitism by portraying the early UFP as perpetuating such hierarchies.
It'd be rather ridiculous to condemn him from coming from a family which had money in the past.
You're thinking in-universe. (Obviously, in-universe, one's family's former elite status should not prevent one from achievement.)

Out-universe, I object to depicting a family from the modern ruling class as being part of a future utopian ruling class, as I think that contributes to the idea that such families ought to dominate. This is an evaluation of the narrative, not an in-universe evaluation of the character.
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Old July 3 2013, 09:43 PM   #125
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Geez, sorry I opened my fat yapper.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:12 PM   #126
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
You're thinking in-universe. (Obviously, in-universe, one's family's former elite status should not prevent one from achievement.)

Out-universe, I object to depicting a family from the modern ruling class as being part of a future utopian ruling class, as I think that contributes to the idea that such families ought to dominate. This is an evaluation of the narrative, not an in-universe evaluation of the character.
I would disagree, primarily because so many other people are not from said classes. However, this is a bit off topic and (as Christopher mentioned) not an issue with his writing intent.
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Old July 3 2013, 11:58 PM   #127
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

It never even occurred to me to think about the "Vanderbilt dynasty" when writing about Thomas Vanderbilt. I wasn't even particularly aware that there was one. To me the name suggests Gloria Vanderbilt, who I think was a fashion designer or something, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless about what the name suggests. Sure, it does have kind of an upper-class sound, but to me it was pretty much just a name.

Anyway, I did try to describe Thomas Vanderbilt as having olive or medium-dark skin, suggesting that he wasn't as white as the name suggests but was of a mixed ethnic background. So he's certainly not meant to be a pureblooded descendant of some current "dynasty." And I didn't portray him as upper-class in any way.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:06 AM   #128
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
It never even occurred to me to think about the "Vanderbilt dynasty" when writing about Thomas Vanderbilt. I wasn't even particularly aware that there was one. To me the name suggests Gloria Vanderbilt, who I think was a fashion designer or something, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless about what the name suggests. Sure, it does have kind of an upper-class sound, but to me it was pretty much just a name.

Anyway, I did try to describe Thomas Vanderbilt as having olive or medium-dark skin, suggesting that he wasn't as white as the name suggests but was of a mixed ethnic background. So he's certainly not meant to be a pureblooded descendant of some current "dynasty." And I didn't portray him as upper-class in any way.
I didn't take the character of Thomas Vanderbilt as being intended to be a descendant of the Vanderbilt family. I just took it as a guy with the same name.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:32 AM   #129
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

All right, all right, I *get* it. Can we move on?
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Old July 4 2013, 01:01 AM   #130
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
All right, all right, I *get* it. Can we move on?
I'm kind of enjoying the discussion... why are you taking this personally?

I sometimes wonder what happens to the "big names" of our world in the future. I think it would be cool to have a character turn out to be a direct descendant of someone who is prominent in politics or culture in the present. I personally don't know much about the "Vanderbilt Dynasty" though, so that name doesn't mean a great deal to me. It is cool that the tiny bit of set dressing that wasn't even seen on screen in Generations led to the creation of the character in the novels and sparked this entire discussion.
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Old July 4 2013, 05:27 AM   #131
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I don't even think any of the Vanderbilt family is associated with any of the Vanderbilt university / hospital. of course Anderson cooper is a Vanderbilt.
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Old July 4 2013, 05:58 AM   #132
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

The Vanderbilt's got their fortune from the railroad empire built by Cornelius Vangerbilt. The History miniseries The Men Who Built America featured a couple of their family members.
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Old July 4 2013, 04:08 PM   #133
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

The book is great, the best ENT I read so far! I especially liked Dax and his "secret". The fact that they concealed the truth about the symbiots felt really believable, and it could be the source of good adventures. But I'm curious about a few little detail, that whould help me picture the story better. First: are Kirk and Liao officers? Second: is the Thejal that other class of Andorian ships from the show? Third: does commodores and crewmans have a different rank insignias? And I'm a little puzzled about Tallarico being on the Discovery. Wasn't she destroyed too long ago for Tallarico to be still just an ensign?

Other then these I found it awesome. It had every thing someone would expect from a good book: politics, spies, new discovery, a little bit of heart and the old Trek feeling, that a little common sense and brain with a good speech will overcomes any problem or enemy.

Keep up the good work Chritopher!
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Old July 4 2013, 05:06 PM   #134
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Briet wrote: View Post
The book is great, the best ENT I read so far!
Thanks!

I especially liked Dax and his "secret". The fact that they concealed the truth about the symbiots felt really believable, and it could be the source of good adventures.
This was established in TNG: "The Host." The Federation was unaware of the Trill's true nature until the events of that episode. (Although later DS9 episodes suggested that Sisko had known before then, and some other individuals have been in on the secret in other books, including Dr. McCoy according to The Lives of Dax.)


But I'm curious about a few little detail, that whould help me picture the story better. First: are Kirk and Liao officers?
Yes. Lieutenant and lt. commander, respectively.


Second: is the Thejal that other class of Andorian ships from the show?
You mean this one? I think I meant to suggest it might be, but I left it ambiguous, since that ship was a reuse of a shuttle-sized craft from an earlier episode, so I wasn't sure those ships were big enough for what I had in mind.


Third: does commodores and crewmans have a different rank insignias?
I'm sure they do, but I didn't come up with any.


And I'm a little puzzled about Tallarico being on the Discovery. Wasn't she destroyed too long ago for Tallarico to be still just an ensign?
Good point. There's a very good explanation for that, which is that I goofed. Maybe I'll find a way to explain it later.
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Old July 4 2013, 07:10 PM   #135
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Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

^ Thanks.
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