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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 1 2013, 05:40 PM   #31
BillJ
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post

As well on that point. Hopefully thy'll have broken up Spock and Uhura and put her with Scotty where she should be (thanks to TFF).
That was more out-of-left-field than anything they did with Spock/Uhura. At least with Spock/Uhura, you could point to early TOS and see that there was some chemistry between Nimoy/Nichols.

Do we ever have any evidence that Scott and Uhura were attracted to one another prior to The Final Frontier?
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Old July 1 2013, 07:07 PM   #32
Kevman7987
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

BillJ wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post

As well on that point. Hopefully thy'll have broken up Spock and Uhura and put her with Scotty where she should be (thanks to TFF).
That was more out-of-left-field than anything they did with Spock/Uhura. At least with Spock/Uhura, you could point to early TOS and see that there was some chemistry between Nimoy/Nichols.

Do we ever have any evidence that Scott and Uhura were attracted to one another prior to The Final Frontier?
TBH I don't really have a problem with Spock/Uhura. I just would have preferred that if they were going to put Spock in a relationship that they had made Chapel a character and paired Spock with her.

I think there were some hints throughout TOS that Scotty was attracted to Uhura. But it was the same level of attraction he showed to other female crewmembers from time-to-time.
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Old July 1 2013, 08:13 PM   #33
Richard Baker
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Personally I wish they had never introduced the whole Spock/Uhura thing- I think she is a strong character who never needed to be defined by who she is with.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:15 PM   #34
Malaika
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Personally I wish they had never introduced the whole Spock/Uhura thing- I think she is a strong character who never needed to be defined by who she is with.
Kirk and Spock are supposed to be very strong characters as well but many people including the writers still think that they should be defined as people by their friendship and they even have Spock prime saying that. Many of the opponents of the Spock/Uhura relationship are in fact people that feel she's a threat to that because if Spock has someonelse besides Kirk somehow, someway (according to them), it takes away from the fact that Kirk should be the one and only "completing him" and making him a whole person.
People, including actors like Chris Pine, always talk about how these characters cannot function as human beings without the other and I cannot imagine what people would say if the same things were said about Uhura.
So it's kinda ironic that people think that in a franchise that is mainly based on a friendship that defines the characters it's Uhura the one defined by her relationship with Spock and further ironic is that they consider that diminishing of her character all the while the same identical thing (and "worse") is considered the biggest appeal of the K/S friendship for many.

IMO It all comes down to the fact that according to some women cannot express love and feelings because if they do that they're considered "weak". On the other hand there is this very radicated patriarchal idea in the star trek fandom in particular that men being defined by their interpersonal relationships are good story telling and character development (maybe because it had always been like that) Only men are allowed to show feelings without being made weak by them.
Take how McCoy is mainly defined by his friendship with Kirk in nu!trek as almost the totality of his most important scenes are about his friendship with Kirk and yet no one complains about that making McCoy weak as a character.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:43 PM   #35
Malaika
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

BillJ wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post

As well on that point. Hopefully thy'll have broken up Spock and Uhura and put her with Scotty where she should be (thanks to TFF).
That was more out-of-left-field than anything they did with Spock/Uhura. At least with Spock/Uhura, you could point to early TOS and see that there was some chemistry between Nimoy/Nichols.

Do we ever have any evidence that Scott and Uhura were attracted to one another prior to The Final Frontier?

none at all. Both James and Nichelle were pretty much puzzled by that, from what I remember, because there is no hint in tos that these two characters could be more than friends. BUT she said for example that Spock/Uhura was a pair that Roddenberry himself had in mind but it was controversial to explore or even just hint in the 60s.

Anyway there is no relationship to talk about even in "the final frontier". Not even the script mentions a romantic relationship or even a build up for that.
The only hint that she could have romantic feelings for Scotty is a scene where a mentally compromised (thank Sybok) Uhura tried to seduce an unwillingly Scotty (who knew she was a convert and therefore not herself) and they never mentioned it again. The only mention it gets is in the DC comics where they have them say that they're just friends and she hadn't been herself.
I know that some people think that they were already together before that (cue that other scene where she brought him lunch) but if that was true then what she said under Sybok's influence wouldn't make any sense as she explicly stated that before Sybok had made her realize those feelings she had never expressed them (also Scotty's reaction suggests she had never acted that way with him. He had the biggest wtf face when she started to talk) they were friends since so many years and a family so they could be affectionate toward each other as Kirk was when he hugged her after Spock died or how she acted when Spock came back.. but nothing more than that.

as a black female character played by a black actress Uhura had never been allowed to have any hint of on screen romance unless it happened while she was under some influence (like the Kirk/Uhura kiss and the whole Uhura/Scotty thing) so thanks but no thanks. At least the nu!trek relationship between Spock and Uhura is real, reciprocal and the old fashioned free will and "people met and fell in love" that is always better than "I suddenly decided that I love you because a crazy mofo manipulated my feelings".

If that was my thing I'd ship Spock and Leila Kalomi then.
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Old July 2 2013, 07:57 PM   #36
M'Sharak
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Malaika wrote: View Post
Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Personally I wish they had never introduced the whole Spock/Uhura thing- I think she is a strong character who never needed to be defined by who she is with.
Kirk and Spock are supposed to be very strong characters as well but many people including the writers still think that they should be defined as people by their friendship and they even have Spock prime saying that. Many of the opponents of the Spock/Uhura relationship are in fact people that feel she's a threat to that because if Spock has someonelse besides Kirk somehow, someway (according to them), it takes away from the fact that Kirk should be the one and only "completing him" and making him a whole person.
People, including actors like Chris Pine, always talk about how these characters cannot function as human beings without the other and I cannot imagine what people would say if the same things were said about Uhura.
So it's kinda ironic that people think that in a franchise that is mainly based on a friendship that defines the characters it's Uhura the one defined by her relationship with Spock and further ironic is that they consider that diminishing of her character all the while the same identical thing (and "worse") is considered the biggest appeal of the K/S friendship for many.

IMO It all comes down to the fact that according to some women cannot express love and feelings because if they do that they're considered "weak". On the other hand there is this very radicated patriarchal idea in the star trek fandom in particular that men being defined by their interpersonal relationships are good story telling and character development (maybe because it had always been like that) Only men are allowed to show feelings without being made weak by them.
Take how McCoy is mainly defined by his friendship with Kirk in nu!trek as almost the totality of his most important scenes are about his friendship with Kirk and yet no one complains about that making McCoy weak as a character.
That's an interesting observation.

Also:
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Old July 2 2013, 09:46 PM   #37
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
I've already said I'd like to see the Klingons and Federation finally have the full-scale war we saw in "Yesterday's Enterprise" and which, apparently, a ****-ton of Admirals would really like to see happen.
I agree that I'd love to finally see a full scale war in Star Trek on the big screen (Ideally with the Klingons, but throwing in other elements like the Romulans, etc would be great too). Some people say "it's not Star Wars it's Star Trek" but I disagree. You could still have a character driven story that deals with people at war. Seeing Kirk, Spock and the crew of the Enterprise dealing with the stress and danger that goes along with being on the front lines of an intergalactic war would be great.

Plus I admit, I want to see those armada's battling in space.
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Old July 2 2013, 09:50 PM   #38
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Clancy_s wrote: View Post
and what the plan on doing with 72 frozen augments.
If they were smart, they'd get those pods off Earth. I hear there's a planet in the Ceti Alpha system which would do nicely...
I say, put them on a planet in a certain sector of space called Klach D'Kel Brakt and leave them with NO TECHNOLOGY OF ANY KIND other than what they had aboard the Botany Bay. To make sure that the other inhabitants aren't threatened, they should be placed in a different continent of said planet.
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Old July 2 2013, 11:12 PM   #39
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

If Majel Barrett were alive today I'd like to see what they could do with Number One.

But since she's not, I think they might as well let her be. No one could play Number One like Majel, could they? (I am open to suggestions)
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Old July 3 2013, 10:52 PM   #40
Clancy_s
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Malaika wrote: View Post
IMO It all comes down to the fact that according to some women cannot express love and feelings because if they do that they're considered "weak". On the other hand there is this very radicated patriarchal idea in the star trek fandom in particular that men being defined by their interpersonal relationships are good story telling and character development (maybe because it had always been like that) Only men are allowed to show feelings without being made weak by them.
For some maybe but my reservations with Uhura's expressions of feelings in STID come from how it was done, not the fact she had feelings.

Mostly I think that the moment of entry of their ship into Kronos' atmosphere, 3 minutes eta from Harrison, was a really inappropriate moment for her to front Spock about his apparent lack of care for her feelings. This was underlined by Kirk's "are we really doing this now" which elicited a generalised snicker from the audience when I saw it and IMO made Uhura look unprofessional and foolish.

Elsewhere in the movie she did really well, but that IMO unfortunate moment was what caught my attention the most on first viewing.
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Old July 4 2013, 12:13 AM   #41
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

Clancy_s wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
IMO It all comes down to the fact that according to some women cannot express love and feelings because if they do that they're considered "weak". On the other hand there is this very radicated patriarchal idea in the star trek fandom in particular that men being defined by their interpersonal relationships are good story telling and character development (maybe because it had always been like that) Only men are allowed to show feelings without being made weak by them.
For some maybe but my reservations with Uhura's expressions of feelings in STID come from how it was done, not the fact she had feelings.

Mostly I think that the moment of entry of their ship into Kronos' atmosphere, 3 minutes eta from Harrison, was a really inappropriate moment for her to front Spock about his apparent lack of care for her feelings. This was underlined by Kirk's "are we really doing this now" which elicited a generalised snicker from the audience when I saw it and IMO made Uhura look unprofessional and foolish.

Elsewhere in the movie she did really well, but that IMO unfortunate moment was what caught my attention the most on first viewing.

I have mixed feelings on the scene with uhura's emotional outburst .however I did find it realistic in the sense that that is the way we humans behave. we humans tend to lose control at the wrong place at the wrong time it is one of our most tragic flaws.

However I don't think uhura will have had an outbust if anyone's but kirk was there. kirk was her and spock's close friend so it was not like she let loose in front of a random co-woker.


Also remember spock throwing kirk out of the ship in the first film? that was way more un professional than uhura emotional outbust. I don't see people calling spock out on that.

Also when he was an acting captain, Spock attempting murder on the bridge by strangling kirk in front of his crew mates and his dad that was way unprofessional either.

Sure Kirk provoked him by saying he did not care for his mum but uhura is in the same position as well. spock provoked her by not caring of his life and her feelings.

Lastly, how about kirk eating an apple and treating the kobayashi maru test as a joke in front of his class mates and instructors...how un professional is that?

I don't mean to bring up race/sex, sadly it is a huge factor with uhura. its like her white male counterparts gets a free pass for behaving like the flawed humans we all are but she gets put down.

a lot of people said all uhura ever did was cry. however what is so weak about crying because your captain and friend died or crying because of your boyfriend's potential death.

Didn't Kirk cry when Captain Pike died?

Spock cried when kirk died and he also cried when his planet got blown up and he watched his mum die. the tears may not have fallen from his eyes but his eyes were still filled with tears. This was the reason why he got off the captain's chair and headed to the elevator.Spock was about to burst into tears.

Why is Spock and Kirk not called weak? oh yeah...they are men.

But like you said, uhura was great in other parts of the film. she did help spock a lot, even after she told him to get the bad guy. Carol is the other girl that has been crucified for just been a pretty face. lets all forget how she confronted and slapped her dad because of his evil plans (sarcarsm)

oh well....

Last edited by serenitytrek1; July 4 2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Old July 4 2013, 04:55 AM   #42
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

sorry not quoting because it's too hard to do on a tab...

I dislike the timing of Uhura’s outburst because they were in mid mission, approaching Kronos, 3 minutes eta Harrison and their lives were in danger not because Kirk was there. The discussion was ended by an attack by the Klingons, which IMO reinforces that as a bad time.

Sure humans loose it at the wrong moment sometimes, but not every time or we'd be extinct. Uhura is a trained professional and the volcano thing had happened some time earlier - I'd have hoped she'd have picked a better time.

I think the writers put it there because there was nowhere better, given the amount of action but I still dislike it. I don’t dislike Uhura btw, it pulls me out of the story and I think bad things about the writers.

wrt your examples

Spock marooned Kirk immediately after Kirk mutinied and attacked him but when they were deciding what to do next, not mid mission . It was still inappropriate and iirc while he was climbing out of the hole Kirk muttered about suing him.

Spock attacking Kirk was definitely unprofessional and Spock removed himself from command because of it. Also IMO having your love for your mother attacked immediately after you'd seen her, your home planet and 99. 9 % of its people destroyed is more immediately provoking than your boyfriend not being demonstrative when he thought he was going to die some days ago. YMMV.

Kirk's behaviour at the Kobayshi Maru was unprofessional and Spock was trying to get him thrown out of The Academy because of it when news of the attack on Vulcan came. Moreover that happened in a simulation, not on the front line.
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Old July 4 2013, 05:13 AM   #43
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

sorry about the double post - editing works really badly on a tab.

wrt Carol - mostly awesome with her science and weapons expertise and being willing to face off her father on the Enterprise but IMO she chose a weird time and place to take her clothes off and that's what people mostly remember. I don’t think slapping him was particularly brave or clever as she didn't seem to think he'd hit her back. IMO the smart move would have been to pretend to be cowed and try to disable the weapons system for a while longer.
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Old July 4 2013, 07:08 AM   #44
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

I'd like to see them visit Keenser's homeworld. We could find out so much about them and their culture. Like the suspiciously Christmas-like holiday they celebrate.

Maybe there could be an animated segment.
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Old July 4 2013, 08:30 AM   #45
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Re: Developments you'd like to see in the NTrekverse

^Already done in an issue of the comic book.
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