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Old June 15 2013, 11:12 PM   #16
Sran
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
So even after humanity can master FTL travel, they won't be able to stamp out street crime. So much for Roddenberry's optimistic future.
Unfortunately no. The ability to travel faster than light will merely give people more places in which to commit their crimes. Remember that the amount of chaos in the universe is always increasing. Crime breeds chaos.

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Old June 15 2013, 11:28 PM   #17
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
Roddenberry's optimistic future.
It is aload of class A crap.

Yes there not likely any pettycrime on Earth.And if it is it will be rare and far between.

But can you really expect the same on some border world? Or from other alien species that do not share Human values?
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Old June 15 2013, 11:34 PM   #18
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

^Exactly right. Sisko's speech about this very subject in "The Maquis" was spot-on. It's easy to behave oneself when living in a society that's well-established and can provide for its people. But that's not going to be the case on a newly colonized planet. There will be crime, from petty theft to murder. Improved technology is small comfort in the face of fear and desperation, feelings that drive people to do rash things.

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Old June 16 2013, 01:18 AM   #19
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
So even after humanity can master FTL travel, they won't be able to stamp out street crime. So much for Roddenberry's optimistic future.
The whole schtick about mankind evolving past crime is like some cultural revolution propaganda. People being fed by the system like Picard have it on repeat, and they seem to believe that by saying it it becomes a truth and any variance from that is a failure and aberration on the part of mankind.

As to the waiters etc.. perhaps you need to put in the hard yakka as a pleb in any area you are wanting to achieve in. Planning on being a chef? Learn how to interact with customers and what their irritations and wants are via waiting tables.
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Old June 16 2013, 03:05 AM   #20
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Actually, given that the worst punishment we've seen in VOY for crime seems to be an all-expenses paid vacation in New Zealand, I'm surprised the crime isn't a lot higher.

I know they didn't want to put it in Siberia because the Federation can't have gulags, but I think they could have come up with someplace worse than New Zealand for their penal colony. Not much of a deterrent, really.
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Old June 16 2013, 03:22 AM   #21
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

I heard it was punishment for real life crimes.

Kiwi computer programmers when rendering the opening credits to TNG branded the map to New Zealand onto Saturn without permission.

http://www.eeggs.com/items/49501.html
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Old June 16 2013, 06:45 AM   #22
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Wasn't there another episode that claimed that there were places on Earth where tourists got "mugged", but it was just part of the authentic experience?
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Old June 16 2013, 07:19 AM   #23
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Bad Atom wrote: View Post
Wasn't there another episode that claimed that there were places on Earth where tourists got "mugged", but it was just part of the authentic experience?
The Ferengi who set up that scheme was smart.

That aside, I seem to remember that from somewhere too but can't figure out what episode it was. So now I'm curious.
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Old June 16 2013, 08:01 AM   #24
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

from VOY Gravity

NOSS: Tu be veg!
PARIS: Er, sorry?
NOSS: Sen. Neeba sen.
PARIS: Either the universal translator's offline or I hit my head harder than I thought.
NOSS: Ruk.
PARIS: All right, take it easy. All right, all right. Take it easy.
NOSS: Fita!
PARIS: This? Listen, I really need this.
NOSS: Fita ur neeto.
PARIS: Okay, okay. First day in town and I've already been mugged.
It's just something Tom says.
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Old June 16 2013, 08:35 AM   #25
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Bad Atom wrote: View Post
Wasn't there another episode that claimed that there were places on Earth where tourists got "mugged", but it was just part of the authentic experience?
There is a storyline somewhere out there in the ether, but I'm pretty sure not Star Trek, where people pay to have the experience of being kidnapped.

In Dune there is a rich and powerful man who infects himself with diseases for his own amusement.

Also people go camping VOLUNTARILY.
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Old June 16 2013, 09:54 PM   #26
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Yes, it's the first episode with Sandrine's. Tom tells Harry he found the real Sandrine's when his wallet was stolen and Harry is shocked that he was mugged on Earth. Then he says it's just for the tourists and they give you your wallet back.
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Old June 17 2013, 12:12 AM   #27
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Oh give me a break. Magic college know it all psychic powers do not apply to a fictional universe, or even that accurately to the real one.

Just like in the real world, everybody who has a good job now either spent years in crappy jobs first or have rich grandparents. Everybody I know who is doing well financially now had to spend a few years at one point as a waiter/waitress, a grocery store clerk, an inventory counter, or something like that, and they got their good jobs later. Why would it be any different in a world with replicators?

In this fictional universe that is, and I can not stress this enough, is not required to conform to your own politics, it's likely that there is very little crime on Earth and major Federation planets. However, outlying colonies and non-aligned worlds where they don't have replicators or steady streams of resources do still have all those social problems.
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Old June 17 2013, 12:28 AM   #28
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
Actually, given that the worst punishment we've seen in VOY for crime seems to be an all-expenses paid vacation in New Zealand, I'm surprised the crime isn't a lot higher.
The punishment is not too light.

Peter Jackson's estate has continued to milk Tolkien into the 24th century. The quality of the adaptations is at an all-time low; currently they're on their fourth remake of "A New Shadow." The inmates are forced to assist making them.

Federation attorneys have filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the inmates, citing "cruel and unusual punishment" and "crimes against humanity".
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Old June 18 2013, 06:09 PM   #29
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

purplebookworm wrote: View Post
Yes, it's the first episode with Sandrine's. Tom tells Harry he found the real Sandrine's when his wallet was stolen and Harry is shocked that he was mugged on Earth. Then he says it's just for the tourists and they give you your wallet back.
Thank you, I knew I wasn't crazy.
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Old June 18 2013, 06:51 PM   #30
Pavonis
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Re: Incredible inconsistency in "Concerning Flight"

Actually, Tom specified that they give you back your wallet "most of the time".

PARIS: I found this place just after my pocket was picked walking by the harbour.
KIM: Somebody picked your pocket? On Earth?
PARIS: Oh, they just do it for tourists. They give it back. Most of the time.
I wonder what they're carrying in their wallets in the 24th century. Not currency. Identification, I imagine, but a whole wallet just for an ID card?
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