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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 17 2013, 10:09 PM   #76
Sran
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Hmm, maybe. Beach's uniform was like Sulu's (gold undershirt) so I thought Beach might have just been filling in for Chekov at sciences while he was away.
Except that Beach was at the science station while Chekov was on the bridge, and he gave the initial report on Ceti Alpha V's surface conditions.

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Old June 17 2013, 10:25 PM   #77
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Sran wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Hmm, maybe. Beach's uniform was like Sulu's (gold undershirt) so I thought Beach might have just been filling in for Chekov at sciences while he was away.
Except that Beach was at the science station while Chekov was on the bridge, and he gave the initial report on Ceti Alpha V's surface conditions.
The only thing that makes me think that Beach wasn't the science officer was that is uniform was consistent with helmsmen and engineers, whereas Chekov's could have been for sciences (IIRC, Chekov did spout some technobabble regarding an energy reading he found on the planet's surface).

Maybe Chekov was manning a special station dedicated to Project Genesis while Beach was at the regular sciences station?
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Old June 17 2013, 10:27 PM   #78
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The only thing that makes me think that Beach wasn't the science officer was that is uniform was consistent with helmsmen and engineers, whereas Chekov's could have been for sciences (IIRC, Chekov did spout some technobabble regarding an energy reading he found on the planet's surface).

Maybe Chekov was manning a special station dedicated to Project Genesis while Beach was at the regular sciences station?
Hard to say. I could cite non-cannon sources to illustrate my point, but that's not fair. Not everyone's read the same material.

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Old June 17 2013, 11:19 PM   #79
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

We've seen people in the wrong color uniform for their posts before, like Spock wearing gold in the second pilot (though since he was both first officer and science officer, I guess either could've worked), or Charlene Masters in "The Alternative Factor" wearing blue despite being an engineer (and having no rank stripes despite being a lieutenant). Data was effectively TNG's science-officer character, but he was in operations gold because it looked better with his makeup.

Come to think of it, Harry Kim was nominally the operations manager and wore gold, but he functioned as the de facto science officer just as Data had. Maybe the same goes for Beach. I can see how an ops manager could fill a role similar to that of a science officer, since their job is to coordinate the activities of the crew, allocate resources, and so on, and on a ship primarily dedicated to science, they'd have to keep on top of the science-related activities. It's a reach, but there's certainly more than a little canonical evidence to support it.
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Old June 17 2013, 11:23 PM   #80
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

YARN wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Oh, and Starfleet has no standards or regulations to govern Kirk's behavior, because Starfleet is fictitious - it exists to support the characters in their motivations and back stories, not to inhibit their behavior where that hurts the drama.
If we were to accept this standard, we would have to give up the reasoned discussion of fiction.

A: "Why didn't the cops arrest the bad guy when they had the chance in act 1?"

B: "There are no cops, it's just fiction. If they'd arrested him, they would've also arrested the drama. We need the big bad to have the showdown in act 3, so that's how it is."


I don't think you mean to suggest that "anything goes," so take this with a grain of salt. It's just dangerous to be too casual in dismissing critical questions on the grounds that it's all just fiction.
You're lecturing again, after having been directed to refrain from doing that very thing. Warned; comments to PM.
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Old June 17 2013, 11:24 PM   #81
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
We've seen people in the wrong color uniform for their posts before, like Spock wearing gold in the second pilot (though since he was both first officer and science officer, I guess either could've worked), or Charlene Masters in "The Alternative Factor" wearing blue despite being an engineer (and having no rank stripes despite being a lieutenant). Data was effectively TNG's science-officer character, but he was in operations gold because it looked better with his makeup.

Come to think of it, Harry Kim was nominally the operations manager and wore gold, but he functioned as the de facto science officer just as Data had. Maybe the same goes for Beach. I can see how an ops manager could fill a role similar to that of a science officer, since their job is to coordinate the activities of the crew, allocate resources, and so on, and on a ship primarily dedicated to science, they'd have to keep on top of the science-related activities. It's a reach, but there's certainly more than a little canonical evidence to support it.
Without knowing precisely how uniform colors are chosen, it's certainly possible that an officer could just pick the color he wanted as long as his background fit within the division in question and he logged hours in that area while serving in his current post.

Another example of alternate uniform colors would be Spock, who wore the white of the command division after being promoted to captain, but served as science officer in addition to his duties as Kirk's XO following TVH.

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Old June 17 2013, 11:27 PM   #82
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

It was totally unacceptable when they changed the actor for Daimon Bok. How could Picard still recognize him?

OK, just kidding.

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Old June 17 2013, 11:29 PM   #83
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

In the novel Vanguard: Harbinger, which is set between the second pilot and the first season, there's a bit where the Enterprise crew, having returned from the galactic rim, gets assigned the new uniforms that came into use while they were away. When a character sees first officer Spock in science blue, he asks if Spock was assigned the wrong uniform by the quartermaster, and Spock explains that since he's also the science officer, he had a choice of which department color to wear.
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Old June 17 2013, 11:32 PM   #84
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
We've seen people in the wrong color uniform for their posts before, like Spock wearing gold in the second pilot (though since he was both first officer and science officer, I guess either could've worked), or Charlene Masters in "The Alternative Factor" wearing blue despite being an engineer (and having no rank stripes despite being a lieutenant). Data was effectively TNG's science-officer character, but he was in operations gold because it looked better with his makeup.

Come to think of it, Harry Kim was nominally the operations manager and wore gold, but he functioned as the de facto science officer just as Data had. Maybe the same goes for Beach. I can see how an ops manager could fill a role similar to that of a science officer, since their job is to coordinate the activities of the crew, allocate resources, and so on, and on a ship primarily dedicated to science, they'd have to keep on top of the science-related activities. It's a reach, but there's certainly more than a little canonical evidence to support it.
Without knowing precisely how uniform colors are chosen, it's certainly possible that an officer could just pick the color he wanted as long as his background fit within the division in question and he logged hours in that area while serving in his current post.

Another example of alternate uniform colors would be Spock, who wore the white of the command division after being promoted to captain, but served as science officer in addition to his duties as Kirk's XO following TVH.
To muddy the issue further, Saavik wore a command white undershirt in Star Trek III, but there was a grayish-purple band on her otherwise white service bar similar in color to Chekov's and Uhura's undershirts.
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Old June 17 2013, 11:41 PM   #85
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

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To muddy the issue further, Saavik wore a command white undershirt in Star Trek III, but there was a grayish-purple band on her otherwise white service bar similar in color to Chekov's and Uhura's undershirts.
Not sure what you're referring to, as she clearly has the white bar/strap where her rank is located, but I don't see the purple you're talking about. There is a trim on the edge of the bar, but it looks like other officers have the same thing.

A better example would be Valeris from TUC. She has a red undershirt with a purple rank bar similar to Uhura and Chekov.

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Old June 18 2013, 12:20 AM   #86
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Sran wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
To muddy the issue further, Saavik wore a command white undershirt in Star Trek III, but there was a grayish-purple band on her otherwise white service bar similar in color to Chekov's and Uhura's undershirts.
Not sure what you're referring to, as she clearly has the white bar/strap where her rank is located, but I don't see the purple you're talking about. There is a trim on the edge of the bar, but it looks like other officers have the same thing.
The service bar on her lower left sleeve. There is a slanted grayish-purple band there.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...2/tsfs0246.jpg
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Old June 18 2013, 12:35 AM   #87
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
To muddy the issue further, Saavik wore a command white undershirt in Star Trek III, but there was a grayish-purple band on her otherwise white service bar similar in color to Chekov's and Uhura's undershirts.
Not sure what you're referring to, as she clearly has the white bar/strap where her rank is located, but I don't see the purple you're talking about. There is a trim on the edge of the bar, but it looks like other officers have the same thing.
The service bar on her lower left sleeve. There is a slanted grayish-purple band there.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...2/tsfs0246.jpg
Maybe that just shows she's a rookie officer.
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Old June 18 2013, 12:35 AM   #88
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The service bar on her lower left sleeve. There is a slanted grayish-purple band there.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...2/tsfs0246.jpg
Nice catch! I'd never noticed that before.

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Old June 18 2013, 01:21 AM   #89
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

BillJ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post

Not sure what you're referring to, as she clearly has the white bar/strap where her rank is located, but I don't see the purple you're talking about. There is a trim on the edge of the bar, but it looks like other officers have the same thing.
The service bar on her lower left sleeve. There is a slanted grayish-purple band there.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...2/tsfs0246.jpg
Maybe that just shows she's a rookie officer.
Shane Johnson in his Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise book speculated that it did represent a first-year officer with the colored band representing her division (or perhaps secondary specialty, IMO).
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Old June 18 2013, 01:27 AM   #90
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The service bar on her lower left sleeve. There is a slanted grayish-purple band there.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...2/tsfs0246.jpg
Maybe that just shows she's a rookie officer.
Shane Johnson in his Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise book speculated that it did represent a first-year officer with the colored band representing her division (or perhaps secondary specialty, IMO).
Might be where I got it! Though I haven't really read it in twenty years.
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