RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,795
Posts: 5,217,901
Members: 24,223
Currently online: 815
Newest member: pty4488

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 15 2013, 02:54 PM   #31
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2013, 07:03 PM   #32
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Gallifrey Falls
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

throwback wrote: View Post
Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.
The Joker isn't even so much as mentioned in the film.
__________________
"In the future... do I make it?"
"No."
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2013, 08:09 PM   #33
Locutus of Bored
No Solicitors!
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
throwback wrote: View Post
Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.
The Joker isn't even so much as mentioned in the film.
You know he means The Dark Knight. Don't be obnoxious.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2013, 03:09 AM   #34
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

BillJ wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2013, 04:18 AM   #35
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.
Different strokes…I concur with BillJ (and I'm old enough to have seen WOK in the cinema first run, lest anyone think I'm too young to appreciate older movies). I quite like WOK but STiD has nothing to feel inferior over in comparison--for me. I don't expect everyone to feel that way, of course, but I've yet to talk to anyone (as opposed to post online) who viewed it differently than I did in any significant fashion. So that's one set of anecdotes offset by another.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2013, 11:15 AM   #36
Jon1701
Rear Admiral
 
Jon1701's Avatar
 
Location: Manchester, UK
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.
The first time I watched the movie, I hated it. Hated, hated it. Totally took me out of the moment.

The second time I saw that it did fit in the context of the movie and actually worked quite well as a scene, but any emotional impact had long since been trampled into the ground...
__________________
www.moviebreadbin.com
Movie reviews sponsored by that toupee that Patrick Stewart had sent over from London that time.
Jon1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 03:01 AM   #37
Quantum_Penguin
Lieutenant
 
Quantum_Penguin's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

I'd just like everyone who loves nuTrek to stop telling me how fresh everything is. This reboot features the same goddamn tropes and plot points everyone complained were dragging down storytelling in the Prime universe ten years ago. At the end of the day, STID was basically a pastiche of TWoK and TUC, and they even managed to throw in TSFS at the last minute. There's nothing wrong with making a pastiche, and it's nice that Star Trek is in the spotlight again, but don't tell me the Prime universe was devoid of new stories or that what Abrams has done represents necessary change.
Quantum_Penguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 03:24 AM   #38
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

Quantum_Penguin wrote: View Post
I'd just like everyone who loves nuTrek to stop telling me how fresh everything is.
If you can provide a detailed list of all posts in which people have told you directly that everything in nuTrek is fresh, I'll ask them if they wouldn't mind terribly not telling you that anymore. If they're only stating an opinion generally, however, there's not a great deal I'll be able to do for you.

Quantum_Penguin wrote: View Post
...but don't tell me the Prime universe was devoid of new stories or that what Abrams has done represents necessary change.
Pretty much the same applies here. 'Cause people stating opinions about stuff is something which tends to happen here a lot.
__________________
"If the man doesn't believe as we do, we say he is a crank and that settles it. I mean it does nowadays, because we can't burn him."
— Mark Twain, from Following the Equator
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 03:25 AM   #39
mos6507
Commander
 
mos6507's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

BillJ wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own, nor does it suit a story of two glorified cadets who have barely really gotten to bond.


The first time I watched the movie, I hated it. Hated, hated it. Totally took me out of the moment.

The second time I saw that it did fit in the context of the movie and actually worked quite well as a scene, but any emotional impact had long since been trampled into the ground...
This is the stockholm syndrome at work. It's the sort of thing people who are uber-fans of bands say when they buy a so-so album, but don't want to admit to themselves that it's so-so. They play it over and over again until they will-themselves into liking it.

If something is good, it's gonna seem good the very first time around.
__________________
Fem Trekz on Facebook
mos6507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 03:28 AM   #40
LobsterAfternoon
Commander
 
LobsterAfternoon's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

mos6507 wrote: View Post

It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own, nor does it suit a story of two glorified cadets who have barely really gotten to bond.
Oh come on. Putting aside Kirk, who for all we know had a college degree under his belt and came to the Academy basically as an OCS prospect, Spock is far from a glorified cadet. He was already at least a Lt. Commander by the middle of the 1st movie.

Last edited by M'Sharak; June 17 2013 at 03:30 AM. Reason: quote tag repair
LobsterAfternoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 04:25 AM   #41
Quantum_Penguin
Lieutenant
 
Quantum_Penguin's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Quantum_Penguin wrote: View Post
I'd just like everyone who loves nuTrek to stop telling me how fresh everything is.
If you can provide a detailed list of all posts in which people have told you directly that everything in nuTrek is fresh, I'll ask them if they wouldn't mind terribly not telling you that anymore. If they're only stating an opinion generally, however, there's not a great deal I'll be able to do for you.
Do I really have to substantiate this in the Trek XI forum?

I don't literally mean everybody thinks everything is fresh and original in NuTrek. I was using hyperbole to express frustration with an opinion I don't agree with. And I fully acknowledge that it is my opinion and mine alone.

Furthermore, I don't only talk about Star Trek only on TrekBBS. "Fresh" or some variant such as "new" or "ground-breaking" are the terms I frequently hear applied to nuTrek in conversations with people in real life. And no, I don't keep a list of conversations where people have expressed a particular opinion to me, nor would I expect anyone else to.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Quantum_Penguin wrote: View Post
...but don't tell me the Prime universe was devoid of new stories or that what Abrams has done represents necessary change.
Pretty much the same applies here. 'Cause people stating opinions about stuff is something which tends to happen here a lot.
And my opinion is that those opinions are unfounded.
Quantum_Penguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 04:37 AM   #42
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

It's Phresh!
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 04:57 AM   #43
Clancy_s
Lieutenant Commander
 
Clancy_s's Avatar
 
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

mos6507 wrote: View Post

It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own,.
Not for you clearly but it worked for me (I've not seen WoK)
Clancy_s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 04:59 AM   #44
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Would Star Trek fans be willing to sit through an explanation of what Ferengi, Klingons, Bajorans, Prophets, Organians, Q, Augments, and so on are?
I'd prefer all future Trek reboots leave out the Ferengi, Bajorans, Prophets, Q, and every other alien created for the Berman-era spinoffs. (And I don't even know what an Augment is. Something from VOY or ENT?)
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17 2013, 05:07 AM   #45
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

mos6507 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.
Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.
It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own, nor does it suit a story of two glorified cadets who have barely really gotten to bond.
Really? So the people I've talked to who've never seen WOK (yes, there are quite a number of such people--many of whom have seen the latest Trek film) who found the scene compelling--they're what, lying? The scene may not work for you, but you are hardly the arbiter of what works for everyone else.

As for "barely really gotten to bond", how the hell would you know? I "bonded" with my two best friends within weeks of meeting them--to the point where I would have sacrificed just about anything for either of them then (more so today). Kirk and Spock have been "out there" well more than a few weeks and have experienced any number of "bonding moments" to which you are not privy. Who are you to decide how well they've "bonded"? You can decide you don't find it is compellingly portrayed, of course, but your attempt at arbitrarily fixing the amount of time necessary to bond is rather flimsy.


The first time I watched the movie, I hated it. Hated, hated it. Totally took me out of the moment.

The second time I saw that it did fit in the context of the movie and actually worked quite well as a scene, but any emotional impact had long since been trampled into the ground...
This is the stockholm syndrome at work. It's the sort of thing people who are uber-fans of bands say when they buy a so-so album, but don't want to admit to themselves that it's so-so. They play it over and over again until they will-themselves into liking it.

If something is good, it's gonna seem good the very first time around.
Again, perhaps that's true for you. It certainly isn't true for everyone. First time I tasted single malt whisky, I hated it. I now have 23 (at last count) different types in my liquor cabinet. Found my first Guinness revolting. It is now among my favourite beers. Hated REM's music when I first heard it. Now among my favourite bands. Couldn't stand bluegrass music when I first heard it. My collection of bluegrass albums now numbers in the dozens. I could provide more examples if you wish.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
star trek reboot

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.