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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old May 21 2014, 10:18 AM   #1396
Rarewolf
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Candlelight wrote: View Post
three episodes of The Tenth Planet were put back in the wrong place and survived.
I think Tenth Planet was supposed to have been kept, Episode 4 is one of the genuine AWOL ones that if it was wiped, it was by accident. They can't say for certain that one wasn't snatched.
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Old May 21 2014, 10:48 AM   #1397
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Rarewolf wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
three episodes of The Tenth Planet were put back in the wrong place and survived.
I think Tenth Planet was supposed to have been kept, Episode 4 is one of the genuine AWOL ones that if it was wiped, it was by accident. They can't say for certain that one wasn't snatched.
Nah the three surviving episodes are just viewing copies, not broadcast copies. They were likely returned to the film library instead of Enterprises by mistake. Fortunately this was close to the formation of the F&VTL and was found by Sue Malden as part of the "first 47". It's really bad luck that the fourth episode wasn't included in the returns.

Then again you could say that about any 'classic' that's currently missing.
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Old May 21 2014, 02:14 PM   #1398
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

It's definitely a frustrating situation, but not one worth pointing fingers. Everyone was doing their jobs and it made sense at the time. Sad but true.

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Old May 21 2014, 08:03 PM   #1399
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Candlelight wrote: View Post
Rarewolf wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
three episodes of The Tenth Planet were put back in the wrong place and survived.
I think Tenth Planet was supposed to have been kept, Episode 4 is one of the genuine AWOL ones that if it was wiped, it was by accident. They can't say for certain that one wasn't snatched.
Nah the three surviving episodes are just viewing copies, not broadcast copies. They were likely returned to the film library instead of Enterprises by mistake. Fortunately this was close to the formation of the F&VTL and was found by Sue Malden as part of the "first 47". It's really bad luck that the fourth episode wasn't included in the returns.

Then again you could say that about any 'classic' that's currently missing.
Looking at what we can tell from the records, I have a suspicion that the first three episodes survive BECAUSE the copy of episode four which was lent to Blue Peter wasn't returned to Enterprises. That would have left Enterprises with an incomplete set of prints which were pointlessly taking up shelf- space, which they might as well get rid of. In which case they could bin them, or they could just send them to the film library...
That's all supposition, but it would explain this otherwise odd survival of a new complete story.
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Old May 21 2014, 10:39 PM   #1400
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

diankra wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
Rarewolf wrote: View Post

I think Tenth Planet was supposed to have been kept, Episode 4 is one of the genuine AWOL ones that if it was wiped, it was by accident. They can't say for certain that one wasn't snatched.
Nah the three surviving episodes are just viewing copies, not broadcast copies. They were likely returned to the film library instead of Enterprises by mistake. Fortunately this was close to the formation of the F&VTL and was found by Sue Malden as part of the "first 47". It's really bad luck that the fourth episode wasn't included in the returns.

Then again you could say that about any 'classic' that's currently missing.
Looking at what we can tell from the records, I have a suspicion that the first three episodes survive BECAUSE the copy of episode four which was lent to Blue Peter wasn't returned to Enterprises. That would have left Enterprises with an incomplete set of prints which were pointlessly taking up shelf- space, which they might as well get rid of. In which case they could bin them, or they could just send them to the film library...
That's all supposition, but it would explain this otherwise odd survival of a new complete story.
You could probably say the same for The Invasion as well.
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Old May 21 2014, 11:11 PM   #1401
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Hang on, I thought it was fan myth that Tenth Planet 4 had been nicked from the Blue Peter office, and that it was actually Dalek Masterplan 4 that had vanished from there (after they took the extract of Katarina spacing herself)? Or has the belief switched back?
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Old May 22 2014, 01:11 AM   #1402
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Hang on, I thought it was fan myth that Tenth Planet 4 had been nicked from the Blue Peter office, and that it was actually Dalek Masterplan 4 that had vanished from there (after they took the extract of Katarina spacing herself)? Or has the belief switched back?
FACT: The Daleks Master Plan 4 was borrowed by the Blue Peter office and not returned. It was the only outstanding episode when Sue Malden audited the film library in 1978.The name of the form was 'J. Smith', but Justin Smith, who worked for the office and would've dealt with these, has no recollection of the episode (then again he was several decades after 1973!).

FAN FICTION: Blue Peter borrowed the regeneration clip in 1973 from the only surviving telerecording of The Tenth Planet 4 and the episode subsequently went missing. As the story was still being offered by BBC Enterprises until at least 1974, this story is false. Yes they borrowed a copy of the episode but it was returned or junked sometime before 1978 as per policy. As there is no evidence to suggest the film library ever had a copy of TP4, the print used must've come from BBC Enterprises, which is probably where this rumour came from.

Both of these stories often get mixed up.
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Last edited by Candlefright; May 22 2014 at 01:25 AM.
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Old May 22 2014, 11:24 AM   #1403
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Ah, so I *was* right, good.

"J Smith" - and that didn't look at all suspicious?
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Old May 22 2014, 09:44 PM   #1404
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

It did until he was tracked down and turned out to be Justin! He doesn't remember anything aboit it, as he was handling a dozen borrrowed prints each week he worked on Blue Peter. So ojusst two of hundreds that went across his desk.
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Old May 24 2014, 02:01 AM   #1405
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Did any of them locate some of the lost hartnell episodes?

I still swear to God I saw an episode of the daleks master plan in the 80s on the PBS station in Louisiana..with the emperor dalek and troughton arguing..
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Old May 24 2014, 02:25 AM   #1406
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

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I still swear to God I saw an episode of the daleks master plan in the 80s on the PBS station in Louisiana..with the emperor dalek and troughton arguing..
You mean "The Evil of the Daleks," right? That was the one with Troughton and the Emperor Dalek. "Master Plan" was the really long Hartnell one.
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Old May 24 2014, 02:38 AM   #1407
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

And if either of them was ever run in North Ametica there is a big hole in the BBC's paperwork.
Not impossible: Sierra Leone ran season three without paying to do around 1990, from prints they'd had since the '70s. But by the time this lead was spotted they'd been destroyed by the civil war.
So there is a tiny chance that 'audition prints' were sent to the US and run unoffically. But it's a bit of a stretch...
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Old May 24 2014, 03:30 AM   #1408
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher wrote: View Post
starsuperion wrote: View Post
I still swear to God I saw an episode of the daleks master plan in the 80s on the PBS station in Louisiana..with the emperor dalek and troughton arguing..
You mean "The Evil of the Daleks," right? That was the one with Troughton and the Emperor Dalek. "Master Plan" was the really long Hartnell one.
yes that's it. I knew I had the two backwards. But yes. I distinctly remember seeing it. I should have recorded it, but the betamax we had didn't have that feature.. I think that was on loan and someone is still sitting on it today... it was during a special pledge drive... they never showed a follow up, or a previous episode.. they went straight from there to the episode with the alien with the big green head and one eye, and other aliens on some planet, with the fourth doctor
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Old May 24 2014, 11:45 AM   #1409
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

diankra wrote: View Post
And if either of them was ever run in North Ametica there is a big hole in the BBC's paperwork.
Not impossible: Sierra Leone ran season three without paying to do around 1990, from prints they'd had since the '70s. But by the time this lead was spotted they'd been destroyed by the civil war.
So there is a tiny chance that 'audition prints' were sent to the US and run unoffically. But it's a bit of a stretch...
I have a friend who says that she saw "The Wheel in Space" in Atlanta in the early 1970s. And I've heard rumors that it was broadcast elsewhere in the US (Washington, DC, specifically) at roughly the same time. I find it difficult to discount my friend's first-hand account. If there's a black & white era Doctor Who story that got passed around PBS stations circa 1972 and broadcast, I'd put my money on "Wheel."
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Old May 24 2014, 03:10 PM   #1410
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
diankra wrote: View Post
And if either of them was ever run in North Ametica there is a big hole in the BBC's paperwork.
Not impossible: Sierra Leone ran season three without paying to do around 1990, from prints they'd had since the '70s. But by the time this lead was spotted they'd been destroyed by the civil war.
So there is a tiny chance that 'audition prints' were sent to the US and run unoffically. But it's a bit of a stretch...
I have a friend who says that she saw "The Wheel in Space" in Atlanta in the early 1970s. And I've heard rumors that it was broadcast elsewhere in the US (Washington, DC, specifically) at roughly the same time. I find it difficult to discount my friend's first-hand account. If there's a black & white era Doctor Who story that got passed around PBS stations circa 1972 and broadcast, I'd put my money on "Wheel."
Now that you mention it, I remember seeing wheel in space too on that PBS station! that's right! I don't remember which episode it was tho, or if it was one of the ones missing.. Cybermats were killing people...the doctor got bit..was in a hospital bed..

but I distinctly remember seeing Patrick troughton and the emperor dalek arguing, and him running around the dalek complex, and other daleks talking, and some with human emotions, and the smoke coming from the emperor..incidentally I was a huge fan of that emperor design, he looked like a Chess piece, which was cool, and it was mysterious as to what the internal version would look like..
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