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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old December 22 2013, 08:36 PM   #1111
DWF
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
they've been found for the better part of a year according to rumors
Well, that's what's we're discussing: whether the rumors have that right. It's also been a big part of the rumors that Phil Morris shipped thousands of film cans at once, that a lot more material is already in the possession of the BBC, that "Marco Polo" is being or has been restored, etc, and people have denied all three in the kind of absolute language they didn't use about Enemy and Web. At this point I'm out of the business of claiming anything with real confidence, but I'm increasingly inclined to agree with Rarewolf that whatever else Morris may have found, it hasn't made its way back to the BBC (or, for ITV material, the BFI) yet.
Marco Polo and The Moonbase have DVD release dates and I don't see any reason why he'd hold back most of his discoveries.
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Old December 22 2013, 09:31 PM   #1112
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Basically, it sounds like it's Phil's fault that no one outside his company knows what he has found. That's it in a nutshell.
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Old December 22 2013, 09:34 PM   #1113
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

DWF wrote: View Post
Marco Polo and The Moonbase have DVD release dates and I don't see any reason why he'd hold back most of his discoveries.
Wait, "Marco Polo" has a DVD release date? When did this happen? And when are they planning upon releasing it?

And isn't "The Moonbase"'s release to have the two animated episodes? I thought they had finally been delivered.
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Old December 22 2013, 10:31 PM   #1114
Brendan Moody
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

DWF wrote: View Post
Marco Polo and The Moonbase have DVD release dates
As Allyn says, there's no DVD release date for Marco Polo, and The Moonbase, despite rumors to the contrary last year, has the missing episodes animated.
and I don't see any reason why he'd hold back most of his discoveries.
I don't know if he is holding anything back, but it's not hard to believe he might be doing so, whether or not his reasoning for doing so is obvious to you and me.
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Old December 22 2013, 10:41 PM   #1115
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Basically, it sounds like it's Phil's fault that no one outside his company knows what he has found. That's it in a nutshell.
That's a little harsh. We're talking about canisters of film that have been lost for decades, perhaps because they were mislabeled or unlabeled, or because the labels have eroded away. And the film itself is often in such fragile condition that you couldn't just open up the can and pop it onto a projector; it needs to be carefully, meticulously inspected. It's like an archaeological expedition. It could plausibly take a long time for Morris's company even to figure out what they have and whether it's complete or recoverable at all. And that's nobody's "fault" -- on the contrary, with materials this fragile, it would be criminally reckless to rush the process.
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Old December 22 2013, 11:07 PM   #1116
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

What Chris said. With stuff of this age rush could destroy it.
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Old December 22 2013, 11:27 PM   #1117
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Marco Polo and The Moonbase have DVD release dates and I don't see any reason why he'd hold back most of his discoveries.
Wait, "Marco Polo" has a DVD release date? When did this happen? And when are they planning upon releasing it?

And isn't "The Moonbase"'s release to have the two animated episodes? I thought they had finally been delivered.
Well Marco Polo did have one but I cna't find it now and The Moonbase is set to be released in region one on Feb. 11, I hadn't heard about the animated eps. though.
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Old December 23 2013, 12:38 AM   #1118
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Basically, it sounds like it's Phil's fault that no one outside his company knows what he has found. That's it in a nutshell.
That's a little harsh. We're talking about canisters of film that have been lost for decades, perhaps because they were mislabeled or unlabeled, or because the labels have eroded away. And the film itself is often in such fragile condition that you couldn't just open up the can and pop it onto a projector; it needs to be carefully, meticulously inspected. It's like an archaeological expedition. It could plausibly take a long time for Morris's company even to figure out what they have and whether it's complete or recoverable at all. And that's nobody's "fault" -- on the contrary, with materials this fragile, it would be criminally reckless to rush the process.
Unvarnished is how I'd describe it. After this amount of time, he knows what he has. He should have a rough idea of the condition of each by now as well. They may not have had time to pop them all in a projector, but they'll have made a visual assessment by now.

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Old December 23 2013, 12:48 AM   #1119
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

^So I assume you're a film restoration expert, and thus qualified to judge the difficulties that a professional in the field would face? I'm just an outside observer myself, but I can think of a number of things that would make it more complicated. The sheer volume of material they may have to search through and catalogue could be a factor, if they have gotten a lot of things beyond Doctor Who. The film in many cases may be too fragile to unroll by hand, or faded enough that visual inspection would give unclear results; it may take delicate computer scanning and enhancement to confirm a find, depending on the level of deterioration. And even once they know they have something, they'd need to do more work to assess how complete and recoverable it is, which might require a frame-by-frame examination, which could take weeks for a single serial. It would be irresponsible of them to announce anything before they've had time to make a full assessment of their findings.
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Old December 23 2013, 01:11 AM   #1120
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher wrote: View Post
^So I assume you're a film restoration expert, and thus qualified to judge the difficulties that a professional in the field would face? I'm just an outside observer myself, but I can think of a number of things that would make it more complicated. The sheer volume of material they may have to search through and catalogue could be a factor, if they have gotten a lot of things beyond Doctor Who. The film in many cases may be too fragile to unroll by hand, or faded enough that visual inspection would give unclear results; it may take delicate computer scanning and enhancement to confirm a find, depending on the level of deterioration. And even once they know they have something, they'd need to do more work to assess how complete and recoverable it is, which might require a frame-by-frame examination, which could take weeks for a single serial. It would be irresponsible of them to announce anything before they've had time to make a full assessment of their findings.
While I do agree with you for the most part, I have to think the films or tapes are pretty good shape to begin with since the first nine recovered eps. took a very short time relatively speaking to be remastered.
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Old December 23 2013, 01:19 AM   #1121
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher's point is valid. We don't know the condition of the film stock nor do we know the conditions under which it has been stored. Film will breakdown even under ideal storage conditions.
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Old December 23 2013, 01:35 AM   #1122
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

If there's any truth to this 10,000 can story, there is something that I hope is among them even more than Doctor Who.

I want to see Peter Cushing's "The Caves of Steel." Terry Nation wrote the adaptation, and there are a few clips that exist. I'd like to see the whole thing, I'd like to see how Cushing played Lije Baley.

I believe that Cushing's "1984" does exist (I think it was found, in all places, at the Library of Congress), but Orwell's estate isn't interested in allowing its release.

There's more lost television than Doctor Who.
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Old December 23 2013, 02:47 AM   #1123
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Anachronus wrote: View Post
Christopher's point is valid. We don't know the condition of the film stock nor do we know the conditions under which it has been stored. Film will breakdown even under ideal storage conditions.
I agree with that part completely, but it was odd that the rumors of the discoveries came back in April and the DVDs were ready before the end of the year. I suspect that they're taking their time in bringing them out to remaster the films for the DVDs.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
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Old December 23 2013, 03:20 AM   #1124
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I want to see Peter Cushing's "The Caves of Steel." Terry Nation wrote the adaptation, and there are a few clips that exist. I'd like to see the whole thing, I'd like to see how Cushing played Lije Baley.
Oh, gods, yes. That would be amazing. It's the only screen adaptation that novel's ever had.

Apparently, the production led to the creation of an anthology series called Out of the Unknown which did six more Asimov adaptations, including the sequel The Naked Sun (with a different cast), the robot stories "Satisfaction Guaranteed," "Reason," and "Liar!", and the standalones "The Dead Past" and "Sucker Bait." The two standalones still exist, but the others have been lost. They adapted stories by a number of other SF authors too, including Ray Bradbury, Kate Wilhelm, Clifford Simak, and Fredrik Pohl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...known_episodes
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Old December 23 2013, 04:50 PM   #1125
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher wrote: View Post
^So I assume you're a film restoration expert, and thus qualified to judge the difficulties that a professional in the field would face?
Actually, I do know enough to understand the difficulties they could face. I don't do it for a living myself but I have friends who do. And, what you're talking about are more concerns about how'd they restore the film. By this point, they do know what they have and a good idea of how bad each is.

The restoration itself could conceivably take very long, so I'm not surprised at all that it's not done. But, that's a separate issue from knowing what they have.

And, if you read between the lines in the message that was linked to, that's what Paul is saying. Phil knows what he has and he'll release the details when he wants because it's his company. He probably has business reasons for taking his time.

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