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Stargate Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise forum.

 
 
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Old June 13 2013, 03:09 PM   #16
The Wormhole
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

bullethead wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Air, extended version: This is the first time I've seen the extended rather than broadcast version. There was exactly one scene I thought was new, where James has a big whine at Young about "why don't you ask me how I am, wah wah" which really is an awful scene. James was underused through the show but this scene only makes her look bad. Someone correct me quick if this was in the broadcast version and I just blanked it out.
You're right, that scene was left out of the broadcast version and inserted in the extended version. Other new scenes are Rush explaining the Lucian Alliance to Eli, which includes Rush speculating that someone among Icarus personnel was spying for the Alliance and another scene actually showing Rush's conversation with O'Neill when he used the stones to make contact after arrival on Destiny. The broadcast version just shows Rush swapping into Dr Lee's body.
I really don't get why they reinserted the scene with Rush and O'Neill. It undermines one of the few bits of real ambiguity the show had, plus it makes the character look like an idiot as part of the show's bizarre need to piss on the smart people for some reason.
I thought it gave an interesting look into the kind of person Rush is. In the broadcast version, all we have is him claiming O'Neill put him in charge and everyone (including the audience) has to take him at his word. In this version, we find out that O'Neill actually made some offhand comment like "you got them into this mess, it's up to you to get them out," which Rush apparently chose to interpret as O'Neill placing him in charge. I preferred this angle on the character instead of the "Rush is a shady bastard" view the series was always trying to push down our throats.

teacake wrote: View Post
I'm confused as to why Young is in such a rush to report back to earth. Is he required to do so at certain intervals? So far nothing of any use has come of it which is just DUMB. Why doesn't he use the stones and request someone exchange with him (OR THE COOK) who has experience with ancient tech? There must be plenty of not very useful people on the ship they could exchange with someone with extra knowledge for a few hours.
This has often been one of the common complaints about the stones on the show. It gets worse as the show goes on and most of the time random nobodies swap onto Destiny who don't really help out at all. There's the occasional specialist who helps out with the problem of the week, but for the most part they're just off-duty military officers who I guess just relax while inside someone else's body on the ass-end of the universe.

I can understand just grabbing whoever's available if it's a situation where Young or someone needs to go to Earth for a meeting, but the rest of the time there really should have been experts who could help out on Destiny swapping while everyone else got to go home and bang their spouses.
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Old June 13 2013, 03:31 PM   #17
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

teacake wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if they are real. They are very impressive.
They're real, I remember her saying so during the series run I think because there was a bit of, er, speculation. She did bare all in Masters of Horror anyway...
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Old June 14 2013, 03:42 AM   #18
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
bullethead wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post

You're right, that scene was left out of the broadcast version and inserted in the extended version. Other new scenes are Rush explaining the Lucian Alliance to Eli, which includes Rush speculating that someone among Icarus personnel was spying for the Alliance and another scene actually showing Rush's conversation with O'Neill when he used the stones to make contact after arrival on Destiny. The broadcast version just shows Rush swapping into Dr Lee's body.
I really don't get why they reinserted the scene with Rush and O'Neill. It undermines one of the few bits of real ambiguity the show had, plus it makes the character look like an idiot as part of the show's bizarre need to piss on the smart people for some reason.
I thought it gave an interesting look into the kind of person Rush is. In the broadcast version, all we have is him claiming O'Neill put him in charge and everyone (including the audience) has to take him at his word. In this version, we find out that O'Neill actually made some offhand comment like "you got them into this mess, it's up to you to get them out," which Rush apparently chose to interpret as O'Neill placing him in charge. I preferred this angle on the character instead of the "Rush is a shady bastard" view the series was always trying to push down our throats.
That IS interesting because I think we see Rush do that in other conversations. His arrogance and assumptions contributes to his poor communication skills.
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Old June 14 2013, 06:37 PM   #19
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

teacake wrote: View Post
That IS interesting because I think we see Rush do that in other conversations. His arrogance and assumptions contributes to his poor communication skills.
Does it really count as arrogance when he is the only competent person on the ship? Everyone else just bickers a lot of the time up until S2.5 and even then Rush is like twenty steps ahead of them outside of situations like flying into a blue giant.
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Old June 14 2013, 07:21 PM   #20
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

It was clear that Colonel Young had problems. Colonel O'Neill knew it. Camille suspected it. But not so bad that he couldn't be self corrected. He did eventually pull himself together. But given how intelligent and perceptive Rush is, despite being insensitive and seriously arrogant, he felt he had to withhold information for fear of Young exploiting it carelessly. Not every situation had to be taken as a military issue.

I did like quite a bit of the interpersonal tension that was depicted on the show. It was usually quite visceral and at times believable. But it was dragged out a bit too much. Into S2, they finally eased back on it. But by then it was too late. The budget per episode was very high and the ratings just couldn't justify it.
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Old June 14 2013, 08:40 PM   #21
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

Yes, Rush is always right, but, part of the problem with him not being able to play well with others is his excessive arrogance, secrecy and lack of patience. Even if someone was able to keep up with him theory-wise, he often starts in the middle, expecting people to be as up to date as he is
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Old June 15 2013, 12:33 AM   #22
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

And really why should Young trust him after he made the decision to dial the 9nth chevron when they could have all trotted off to some other planet the Hammond could have eventually rescued them from? He's started his relationship with these people as a loose cannon and they aren't going to forget it.
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Old June 15 2013, 01:40 AM   #23
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

While everyone might have legitimate reason to mistrust and dislike Rush, they still tried too hard to make Rush seem like a shady bastard. Sure he's rude, immoral, and has an assortment of personality disorders, but it always seemed clear to me he was working in everyone's best interests. Or at least what he believed were there best interests.
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Old June 15 2013, 02:28 AM   #24
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yes, Rush is always right, but, part of the problem with him not being able to play well with others is his excessive arrogance, secrecy and lack of patience. Even if someone was able to keep up with him theory-wise, he often starts in the middle, expecting people to be as up to date as he is
To be fair, he mellowed out a lot once he got over his wife's death while using the chair. That said, I don't think he and Col. Young ever had a good professional relationship while at Icarus Base, so it's not surprising that Rush didn't play well with the rest of the crew at first. Their "Rush is an asshole, so let's be an asshole back at him" attitude didn't help either.

This brings up an interesting point - did no one in the upper echelons of Icarus Base know about Rush's wife being dead? Because you would think Wray would bring it up in discussion with Young or something in order to get these guys working together better. I'd assume marital status would be in the background information that Young and Wray would have access to given their positions (given security concerns and what not), but I don't think anyone aside from Amanda Perry knew Rush was a widower.

teacake wrote: View Post
And really why should Young trust him after he made the decision to dial the 9nth chevron when they could have all trotted off to some other planet the Hammond could have eventually rescued them from? He's started his relationship with these people as a loose cannon and they aren't going to forget it.
I mentioned this earlier, but there's a decent chance they would've been more screwed if they hadn't used the 9th chevron address due to Stargate technobabble/continuity.

Anyway, regarding the trust issue, there should be a little trust after Rush correctly diagnoses the air scrubber issue and manages to keep some idiots from killing his entire team (although two people do manage to get themselves killed and Franklin had to be shot). At the very least, I would trust that he knows what he's taking about when it comes to the ship and tech, especially when my second best scientist is a complete rookie with next to no knowledge of SG physics/tech at all. Sure, he might not have the purest motives, but I'd at least trust that he's not going to screw over everyone else out of a sense of self-preservation.

Then again, Young seemed to be really paranoid when it came to Rush in S1. At the end of Light, he jumps to the conclusion that Rush knew they'd survive, when the facts all pointed to them probably dying by flying into a star. At worst, Rush didn't tell them that the ship might refuel by flying into suns, which is totally reasonable when dealing with a ship that they couldn't control, had no power, and was so old that the air scrubber broke five minutes after they arrived. At that point, I would've assumed death was imminent too.
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Old June 15 2013, 07:29 AM   #25
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

teacake wrote: View Post
And really why should Young trust him after he made the decision to dial the 9nth chevron when they could have all trotted off to some other planet the Hammond could have eventually rescued them from? He's started his relationship with these people as a loose cannon and they aren't going to forget it.
If they dailed another planet why would they need a ship to rescue you them couldn't they simply dial the SGC or one of the other off world sites?

As for the start of there relationships with one another, it appeared that they had been working at Icarus base for some time with one another. You could say Rush's descion to dial the ninth chevron didn't exactly help his relationship with them. But we know energy can travel through a stargate so dialing Earth or one of the other off world sites would have been a risk just in case the worst happened. So the only two options open were :

1.>Dial an unihabitated planet in the Milky-Way
2.>Dial the nonth Chevron.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:36 PM   #26
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

Light: Wray is completely pathetic. Young is going to draw a lottery for who gets to go on the shuttle and she marches up to him all, "DO THIS, do THAT, do BLAH BLAH BLAH!!"

And so Young, being a pissy fellow, says "I may take your name out of the lottery."

And she starts to cry. She begs him, "please" not to do this.

And THEN when she actually wins the lottery and gets on the not gonna burn and die shuttle she cries some more. Sobs. Okay I'm sure someone is going to say, well she's a civilian, she's not trained for this. But Chloe didn't cry when her lover jetted away (with his ex lover..) and she thought she would never see him again and also die herself. Was all this Wray crying supposed to help the audience see her soft side? Didn't work.

I think it is shitty that they left bald angry marine out cold on the floor after Greer king butted him with his machine gun. Unprofessional and unkind and shitty.

And Greer.. Greer prepares for death by stripping off, he wants to die as naked as he came into the world. Forget all that awful Greer backstory coming up THIS is all we needed to know. Great stuff.





And finally I do not think Rush "knew" that Destiny would fly through the star and survive. I think he believed that Destiny would survive because Rush, the consummate scientist, has a religious relationship with this ship which he thinks is his own personal "destiny".
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Old June 15 2013, 01:17 PM   #27
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

Light is excellent on paper, we find out about the Destiny recharging via suns, after the drama of everyone thinking they were gonna die a horrible death, the shuttle drama, the planet they found that wasn't perfect, but instead was barely survivable, the moral dilemma for Young to choose "the right people" vs the Lottery.. definitely one of the better early episodes, but, still, just missing something

I agree with you Teacake, Rush didn't know, but, he had Faith in his Destiny and maybe suspected what was going on.

Yea Wray i not a sympathetic character yet, in this one, but, I think she was right, as the Leader, it was irresponsible for Young to leave it to chance and the Lottery (Though if Scott hadn't made it back, and Young loaded the shuttle with the absolute best/most important to survival, then they'd really be screwed)

I took Greer stripping down as a response to the expected heat, and possibly a fear that at some point his clothes would burn maybe. Or possibly some kind of pseudo-religious cleansing in death thing.
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Old June 16 2013, 08:31 PM   #28
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

teacake wrote: View Post
Light: Wray is completely pathetic. Young is going to draw a lottery for who gets to go on the shuttle and she marches up to him all, "DO THIS, do THAT, do BLAH BLAH BLAH!!"

And so Young, being a pissy fellow, says "I may take your name out of the lottery."

And she starts to cry. She begs him, "please" not to do this.

And THEN when she actually wins the lottery and gets on the not gonna burn and die shuttle she cries some more. Sobs. Okay I'm sure someone is going to say, well she's a civilian, she's not trained for this. But Chloe didn't cry when her lover jetted away (with his ex lover..) and she thought she would never see him again and also die herself. Was all this Wray crying supposed to help the audience see her soft side? Didn't work.
People handle situtations differently. Just because peson A doesn't cry in a situtation when person B does, means nothing.
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Old June 17 2013, 04:18 PM   #29
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

When you actually analyse who the characters are, what happens to them, and how they react, you realise that Chloe is probably the bravest of the lot.
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Old June 19 2013, 05:24 AM   #30
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Re: Stargate Universe Rewatch: Now with teacake

^ I think they're all really brave at various points in time. But yeah, later on Chloe proves to be the bravest based on what she goes through. Greer is brave, but it's easy for him to fall back on it because he's a marine. Chloe is a civilian with no training.

I'm re-watching the series again... and wow, it has grown on me. Each time I see something else, something new. These episodes are chocked full of so much material, both in terms of story and emotional interplay. And I'm afraid I'm also growing to like the characters even more, including Rush. This makes it all the tougher to deal with the absurdly short run of only 2 seasons.
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