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Old June 13 2013, 01:00 AM   #31
Vulcan Logician
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

So many problems could be easily solved by the posting of surveillance cameras!!! Especially in sickbay and turbolifts.
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Old June 13 2013, 02:00 AM   #32
Galactic Alignment
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Perhaps mandatory psych evaluations for the upper echelons. How many of Starfleet's captains and admirals have gone completely fucking insane?
In the 24th century, Starfleet psychologists are too busy sitting on starship bridges and stating the obvious to captains to ever bother with piddling matters like psych evaluations.
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Old June 13 2013, 02:19 PM   #33
Mario de Monti
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Crazyewok wrote: View Post
The fact that they have thousands of ships but only have 1 or 2 ships guarding there most vital planets! Fix your defences!
Thousands of starships are a fact? How? What we get from the episodes and movies (including the apparent lack of starships near earth) suggests the opposite, a rather small starfleet. And in the 23rd century even more so than in the 24th.

You jokeing right?

The federation spans I believe afew hundred odd light years do you even understand how vast 1 light year is?

As I said in another post think of all the dutys:


VIP transport and escort
Exploration
Border patrol (must take hundreds or possibly thousands of ships seeing as it borders are huge)
Humanitarian aid and disaster relief.
Diplomatic missions
Anti Piracy and other policing duties
Monitoring and surveying natural phenomenon
Monitoring and spying on local and external threats
Guarding the frontier
Anti Terrorism
Dangerous cargo transport

Starfleet would need at least 1000 ships operational at any given time dureing a complete peroid of peace!

Saying starfleet would have a few dozen ships would be like saying the US navy could do its job with 6 Frigates and a couple of supply tenders

Also look at the registration numbers by DS9 they are up in the 20000's and its established they reuse some registration numbers. So your looking at most likely 1000 Miniumun right up to 25000 maximum.

To me its senisble to assume its around 5000-10000 including support ships.
No, I was in fact not joking. While what you say certainly makes sense when thinking of what a "real" starfleet would or should probably be comprised of, we´re talking about the information given in the Star Trek series/movies. It is of course your choice to conclude that Starfleet does a sloppy job, since earth is left defenseless time and time again. However, for me the logical conclusion is that they just don´t have enough starships to have them guard the core systems.

Since you spoke of "redshirts" in your original post, I assumed you were mostly thinking of the 23rd century. In TOS Kirk speaks of "12 ships". True, that he probably meant just the Enterprise-type, but it doesn´t make sense to assume that there are dozens of other classes of starships with hundreds of vessels, when the Enterprise still hardly ever encounters any - but plenty of Enterprise-type ones.
Also they frequently are performing duties like ferrying cargo/supplies, hosting diplomats or decontaminating planets. There would be no need to use an (exploratory) starship for that, if they had such a vast fleet of other vessels to draw on.
Finally, why would Starfleet go to all the trouble of completely reworking the Enterprise between TOS and TMP, if she was just one of hundreds of starships?

In the 24th century things look a bit different of course. I admit, I hadn´t been thinking of the huge fleets they could suddenly assemble during the latter seasons of DS9 (as compared to TNG!). But then again, in those (DS9) days Starfleet seems much more like a battle or defense fleet, than an exploratory one during the time of TOS and the movies.

Mario
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Old June 13 2013, 03:33 PM   #34
Forbin
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

The starboard power coupling!
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Old June 13 2013, 03:51 PM   #35
SeerSGB
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Battle groups, or if you like Exploration Groups. Small squadrons or 8 to 12 ships each all assigned together and easily in range of each other at all times.
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Old June 13 2013, 03:57 PM   #36
Sran
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Jon1701 wrote: View Post
They really do seem to promote all the dickheads. Its a wonder anything gets done.
Not when you consider that most of the legwork is done by captains.

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Old June 13 2013, 07:12 PM   #37
Crazyewok
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
It is of course your choice to conclude that Starfleet does a sloppy job, since earth is left defenseless time and time again. However, for me the logical conclusion is that they just don´t have enough starships to have them guard the core systems.
If thats the case thats not sloppy that negligance! Haveing a dozen or so ships in ones primary defence fleet when you are surronded by many hostile empire is crazy! It would be akin to the US have a couple of Frigates to prorect it self in world war 2. Crazy!!!!!
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Also they frequently are performing duties like ferrying cargo/supplies, hosting diplomats or decontaminating planets. There would be no need to use an (exploratory) starship for that, if they had such a vast fleet of other vessels to draw on.
And they use aircraft carriers to do mundane stuff too. Just because you are a top of the line ship does not mean you are excused from mundane crap.

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Finally, why would Starfleet go to all the trouble of completely reworking the Enterprise between TOS and TMP, if she was just one of hundreds of starships?
Why do moden westen navys like the USA and UK refit there older ships even though new ones are in production? Because its cost effective and its good to recycle.
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
than an exploratory one during the time of TOS and the movies.

Mario
Seeing as they were on the brink of war with klingons and romulans its stands to reason they would still be a defence fleet.

Also look at its registry number. 1701 and with the Defiant being NCC 1764 we can assume there is at least 1764 ships flying about in the mid 23rd century and its seems that regsitrys are reused sthat registrys of ships that were built earlier and permantly decomissioned are reused.


Last edited by Crazyewok; June 13 2013 at 07:41 PM.
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Old June 13 2013, 08:25 PM   #38
Kirby
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Don't put Rock Storage Compartments above the bridge ceiling. Since deflector dishes can apparently do really super awesome things in addition to being a deflector dish, go ahead and give each ship five or six of them.
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Old June 13 2013, 10:16 PM   #39
SeerSGB
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

No bridge at the top of the saucer.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:21 PM   #40
The Badger
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Well even though there was 12 Constitution class vessels it does not mean there was only 12 ships in the fleet. It just means only 12 of THAT class. As you said they are considerd speciel so if so not many will be made or they wont be "special".
In fact, there could be many more Constitution class vessels. The Enterprise of the series proper differs noticeably from it's appearances in both The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before. The most reasonable in-universe explanation is that it has had a major refit, increasing the crew size, changing the rear ends of the nacelles, getting rid of the 'rockets' Spock refers to.

So when Kirk says 'there's only twelve like her in the fleet', he might be referring to that particular configuration, modified for a five year voyage of exploration. Other Constitutions may be configured for other roles.

This is, I freely admit, pure conjecture on my part, with no supporting evidence. It's possible, though.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:58 PM   #41
Crazyewok
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

The Badger wrote: View Post
Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Well even though there was 12 Constitution class vessels it does not mean there was only 12 ships in the fleet. It just means only 12 of THAT class. As you said they are considerd speciel so if so not many will be made or they wont be "special".
In fact, there could be many more Constitution class vessels. The Enterprise of the series proper differs noticeably from it's appearances in both The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before. The most reasonable in-universe explanation is that it has had a major refit, increasing the crew size, changing the rear ends of the nacelles, getting rid of the 'rockets' Spock refers to.

So when Kirk says 'there's only twelve like her in the fleet', he might be referring to that particular configuration, modified for a five year voyage of exploration. Other Constitutions may be configured for other roles.

This is, I freely admit, pure conjecture on my part, with no supporting evidence. It's possible, though.
Well by the time of undiscoverd country there was at least 10 extra odd as seen on the display screens that wernt in the series.
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Old June 14 2013, 07:01 AM   #42
Mario de Monti
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Kirby wrote: View Post
Don't put Rock Storage Compartments above the bridge ceiling.
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Old June 14 2013, 08:02 AM   #43
Lt. Uhura-Brown
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

How about an option to automatically raise shields when incoming weapons fire is detected?

Ensign Redshirt: "Sir, the enemy ship is firing on us!"
Captain Whoever: "Raise sh--"
*KABOOM*
Ensign Redshirt: "Oops, too late. We suck."
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Old June 14 2013, 08:10 AM   #44
Captain Rob
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

If you're determined to put the bridge on the top of the primary hull. Then don't give it a BIG FRAKKING WINDOW! What happened to the Vengeance's bridge window? It broke.
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Old June 14 2013, 08:24 AM   #45
Third Nacelle
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Re: Things Starfleet needs to fix already on its ships.

Lt. Uhura-Brown wrote: View Post
How about an option to automatically raise shields when incoming weapons fire is detected?

Ensign Redshirt: "Sir, the enemy ship is firing on us!"
Captain Whoever: "Raise sh--"
*KABOOM*
Ensign Redshirt: "Oops, too late. We suck."
Or just leave the shields up ALL THE TIME. The only time they really need to be lowered is for transporting or shuttle launches.
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