RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,162
Posts: 5,402,843
Members: 24,752
Currently online: 407
Newest member: xjkl123

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 22 2013, 07:50 PM   #1456
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

So, he turns Zod's head, and Zod doesn't kill those couple of people... Then what? How could Zod be stopped? He would've kept going and coming back and killing more and more people, he was not willing to be defeated and left alive.

If he was subdued, and he was able to be taken into custody, how do you hold him? If Superman could escape any Human Tech prison, Zod could too. It was only a temporary disability that incapacitated him, that in time Zod would've learned to conquer, just like Clark did.

So, yea, maybe he could've saved those couple of people at that moment in time, but, then more would've been killed immediately afterwards
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 08:22 PM   #1457
Icemizer
Fleet Captain
 
Icemizer's Avatar
 
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Well he could have reached his fingers around and drove them into Zods eye sockets blinding him.That would have made people happy.
Icemizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 08:25 PM   #1458
Savage Dragon
TheSeeker
 
Savage Dragon's Avatar
 
Location: New York, NY
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Saying he could have flown straight up with him wouldn't really have worked either. By this point Zod could fly. It would have been a simple matter for Zod to counteract Superman's efforts to lift him into the sky.
Savage Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 09:40 PM   #1459
The Lensman
Fleet Captain
 
The Lensman's Avatar
 
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
In the comics, the few times he killed was really a last resort. Even with all the other heroes in the DCU, at that point Doomsday wouldn't have been stopped short of death, since he wasn't even slightly rational. Its whole purpose was the killing of every living thing on Earth,
Except Zod had already mass murdered THOUSANDS and specifically said he was going to murder EVERY SINGLE HUMAN on the planet. He told Superman that while in his dream state and he told him later. Which part of this are you struggling with? Because I literally have two under ten nephews who get this better than you do. Who understand that Superman doesn't normally kill but sometimes he's going to have to, especially when he's faced with an opponent with the exact same powers who loses his shit because every hope he had of resurrecting his civilization just died and then specifically says "I'm going to kill you, then I'm going to kill every single human on this planet."

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
In MoS, he really doesn't put too much thought into killing Zod...... Saying MoS Clark wasn't experienced is a cop out. He just isn't very good at what he does, and he didn't seem to even consider not killing him.
Yeah, cuz it was awesome how he killed Zod in Smallville since he didn't think much about killing Zod. But that's not what happened. He plead with Zod not to terraform the Earth and kill everyone on it. Zod ignored him and went to Smallville where they engaged in fisticuffs.

Zod proceeded to try and terraform the planet and mass murdered THOUSANDS of people. After his machine and the matrix were destroyed, Zod and Kal engaged in more fisticuffs, like thirty fucking minutes worth.

Zod told Kal that he was going to murder the rest of the planet. He told Kal that he was not going to stop and that Kal would have to kill him. Then Kal, instead of just snapping Zod's neck pleads with Zod not to kill the family.

All of these things were on screen, so how is it that you're struggling so much to understand any of this?

If he didn't think much of killing, then he would've killed Zod in Smallville, then spent the rest of the movie using his advantage of having grown up on our world to remove the helmets of the Kryptonians or expose them to our atmosphere, and then kill them.

But he didn't do that.

Realizing that no earthly weapons could hurt or kill the Kryptonians, and no earthy construction could hold them, he worked, in cooperation with the United States military to IMPRISON them, non-lethally, in the Phantom Zone. The first plan was non-lethal and it had a 99% success rate. But it was a one shot only deal and Zod escaped it.


kirk55555 wrote: View Post
He may have thought he had no choice, but there were things he could of done..... The comic book Superman could have defeated Zod in that situation without killing him.
Name them or shut up.

At this point you're just a blithering kid who spent a lot of time getting emotionally invested in wanting to hate a movie, look authoritative on something and made a lot of noise about it on the internet. You've ridiculously made allowances for times when he's killed and lived in a world with hundreds of heroes to help and more fantastic tech at his disposal. In the case of Doomsday, it's clear you differentiate the two situations because one looks like a scary, hulking "monster" and one looks like a regular person.

This Superman had neither of those options listed to him available at the time. But you're too invested and entrenched in holding a specific opinion that you made a lot of noise about in front of everyone, and because you can't back down now, you point to inane examples where Superman had more options open to him, yet still killed and say "he had no choice" or "the stakes were higher" even when the "stakes" were exactly the same. You look more and more ridiculous, if that's even possible, every time you reply.

But I need a good fucking laugh, so give the specifics on what these "other options" were. Go ahead. Keep in mind that Zod, having just murdered THOUSANDS of American citizens is subject to American law, and since we executed Bin Laden for less death and destruction, Zod would be found guilty and sentenced to death. And since nothing human made affected Zod, Superman would have to carry out the execution. He doesn't get to escape our laws or punishments.

So let's hear these options that don't result in Superman killing him. I mean, I guess Superman could spend the rest of his days struggling to keep him in a bear hold or something.
__________________
"Everyone Booze Up And Riot!!"
.....Milk and Cheese.....
The Lensman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 10:53 PM   #1460
Icemizer
Fleet Captain
 
Icemizer's Avatar
 
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

At that very early point in Supermans existance, what was it day two, there really were no options. MOS Superman is barely aware of what he can do power wise. Perhaps had the encounter occured five years later I could see him doing other things. This just starting Superman, no option.
Icemizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 11:25 PM   #1461
Sto-Vo-Kory
Commander
 
Sto-Vo-Kory's Avatar
 
Location: Pawnee, MI
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The Lensman wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
He may have thought he had no choice, but there were things he could of done..... The comic book Superman could have defeated Zod in that situation without killing him.
Name them or shut up.

At this point you're just a blithering kid who spent a lot of time getting emotionally invested in wanting to hate a movie, look authoritative on something and made a lot of noise about it on the internet. You've ridiculously made allowances for times when he's killed and lived in a world with hundreds of heroes to help and more fantastic tech at his disposal. In the case of Doomsday, it's clear you differentiate the two situations because one looks like a scary, hulking "monster" and one looks like a regular person.

This Superman had neither of those options listed to him available at the time. But you're too invested and entrenched in holding a specific opinion that you made a lot of noise about in front of everyone, and because you can't back down now, you point to inane examples where Superman had more options open to him, yet still killed and say "he had no choice" or "the stakes were higher" even when the "stakes" were exactly the same. You look more and more ridiculous, if that's even possible, every time you reply.

But I need a good fucking laugh, so give the specifics on what these "other options" were. Go ahead. Keep in mind that Zod, having just murdered THOUSANDS of American citizens is subject to American law, and since we executed Bin Laden for less death and destruction, Zod would be found guilty and sentenced to death. And since nothing human made affected Zod, Superman would have to carry out the execution. He doesn't get to escape our laws or punishments.

So let's hear these options that don't result in Superman killing him. I mean, I guess Superman could spend the rest of his days struggling to keep him in a bear hold or something.
"...Superman would have to carry out the execution." What? He would? How exactly would the US government force Superman to do anything of that nature?

As for Super-alternatives to dealing with Zod, he could have used his own heat vision to blast an escape hole in the wall behind the civilians and hold Zod's head a few moments whilst they climbed thru to safety. After they were away, Superman could have lifted Zod up beyond the earth's atmosphere (Supes is, after all, a solar battery and should be considerably more powerful than Zod at this point having lived a life of saturation in the yellow sun of our solar system). I can't remember if MoS Superman needs air to breathe or not so he does one of two things: 1) he gut punches the air out of Zod and waits for him to lose consciousness, or 2) he carries Zod to the dark side of the moon and waits for him to lose his solar-powered mojo enough to knock him out. Either way, it's lights out for Zod and this will give Kal-El an hour or so to burrow out a spider-hole prison to keep Zod incarcerated in, away from the sun and the source of his troublesome powers. With Zod tucked away, now the people of Earth can turn its focus to the complicated and challenging questions of how to deal with an alien that possesses this level of destructive capabilities. And Zod.

This alternative -- obviously -- came off the top of my head but suggests just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Superman's options at his point in the movie. David Goyer was paid a lot of money and (one would hope) spent a lot of time writing this movie. To paraphrase Mark Waid, Supes killing Zod isn't a failure of the movie's title character; it's a failing in the movie's writer and his lack of a greater imagination. It's not my responsibility or Kirk55555's responsibility to come up with better or more satisfying solutions to Superman's dilemma -- that's why Goyer got the paycheck and not us.

I realize I'm not the "blithering kid" you were calling out but maybe I still gave you that "good fucking laugh" you needed.
Sto-Vo-Kory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 11:36 PM   #1462
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I ask this out of ignorance, I'm not a comic reader, probably never read more than 10 or 15 comics of Superman in my youth, and only know Superman animated from Justice League in the 1970s.

Where does this idea that being in Yellow sunlight longer stores up more super power like a battery come from? I'm not familiar with that at all, and certainly didn't notice that detail in this specific movie? The concept I am familiar with is simply that yellow sun gives Kryptonians Super powers, but, not that it stores more and more the longer you are under the yellow sun.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 11:41 PM   #1463
AllStarEntprise
Fleet Captain
 
AllStarEntprise's Avatar
 
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post

As for Super-alternatives to dealing with Zod, he could have used his own heat vision to blast an escape hole in the wall behind the civilians and hold Zod's head a few moments whilst they climbed thru to safety. After they were away, Superman could have lifted Zod up beyond the earth's atmosphere (Supes is, after all, a solar battery and should be considerably more powerful than Zod at this point having lived a life of saturation in the yellow sun of our solar system). I can't remember if MoS Superman needs air to breathe or not so he does one of two things: 1) he gut punches the air out of Zod and waits for him to lose consciousness, or 2) he carries Zod to the dark side of the moon and waits for him to lose his solar-powered mojo enough to knock him out. Either way, it's lights out for Zod and this will give Kal-El an hour or so to burrow out a spider-hole prison to keep Zod incarcerated in, away from the sun and the source of his troublesome powers. With Zod tucked away, now the people of Earth can turn its focus to the complicated and challenging questions of how to deal with an alien that possesses this level of destructive capabilities. And Zod.

This alternative -- obviously -- came off the top of my head but suggests just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Superman's options at his point in the movie. David Goyer was paid a lot of money and (one would hope) spent a lot of time writing this movie. To paraphrase Mark Waid, Supes killing Zod isn't a failure of the movie's title character; it's a failing in the movie's writer and his lack of a greater imagination. It's not my responsibility or Kirk55555's responsibility to come up with better or more satisfying solutions to Superman's dilemma -- that's why Goyer got the paycheck and not us.

I realize I'm not the "blithering kid" you were calling out but maybe I still gave you that "good fucking laugh" you needed.
^ Remember when Superman was imprisoned on Zod's ship? He was reduced to human level in a matter of seconds. When Lois and Jor-El changed the ship's environment, it didn't take Supes long to recharge up to presumably full strength. As he was able to fly, survive reentry and partake in a protracted fight in Smallville minutes after.

Traditionally, Superman's solar charge functions like a photonucleic effect. Like a plant, as long as Superman gets sunlight to charge his cells he doesn't need to eat, breath and can go days without sleep. He does need to achieve REM sleep every once in awhile.

There simply isn't enough time to deal with Zod or build a prison for him. You look at the prison built for the Hulk in Avengers (that Thor was trapped in). That was built after years of examining the Hulk's strength and durability. If they had time or an unwrecked Kryptonian ship with it's environmental systems still intact. They could fashion a prison for Zod. But first you would have to disable him in combat. Zod was unrelenting in his attack on humanity and Superman at that point. Rewatch the scene, Zod wanted to die. He didn't focus any effort on escaping the headlock. A vulnerable position for anyone to be in but Zod didn't care.
AllStarEntprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2013, 11:46 PM   #1464
AllStarEntprise
Fleet Captain
 
AllStarEntprise's Avatar
 
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Sindatur wrote: View Post
I ask this out of ignorance, I'm not a comic reader, probably never read more than 10 or 15 comics of Superman in my youth, and only know Superman animated from Justice League in the 1970s.

Where does this idea that being in Yellow sunlight longer stores up more super power like a battery come from? I'm not familiar with that at all, and certainly didn't notice that detail in this specific movie? The concept I am familiar with is simply that yellow sun gives Kryptonians Super powers, but, not that it stores more and more the longer you are under the yellow sun.
The Idea comes from the 1986's Man of Steel comic series by John Byrne. It was used to explain why it took Superman so long to fully develop his powers (he didn'y fully develop them until adulthood). In the Silver Age (1960-80's)/Modern/New52 Age, Kryptonian's get powers as soon as they are exposed to the a yellow environment. As we see in MOS. The battery concept is a way of sandbagging Superman as the strongest K, since he's been exposed to yellow sun the longest; in comparison to Supergirl, Superboy (clone) and other K's.

It's a writers ploy that is not always followed, and is only brought up if the plot demands Superman be the strongest.
AllStarEntprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 12:00 AM   #1465
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
I ask this out of ignorance, I'm not a comic reader, probably never read more than 10 or 15 comics of Superman in my youth, and only know Superman animated from Justice League in the 1970s.

Where does this idea that being in Yellow sunlight longer stores up more super power like a battery come from? I'm not familiar with that at all, and certainly didn't notice that detail in this specific movie? The concept I am familiar with is simply that yellow sun gives Kryptonians Super powers, but, not that it stores more and more the longer you are under the yellow sun.
The Idea comes from the 1986's Man of Steel comic series by John Byrne. It was used to explain why it took Superman so long to fully develop his powers (he didn'y fully develop them until adulthood). In the Silver Age (1960-80's)/Modern/New52 Age, Kryptonian's get powers as soon as they are exposed to the a yellow environment. As we see in MOS. The battery concept is a way of sandbagging Superman as the strongest K, since he's been exposed to yellow sun the longest; in comparison to Supergirl, Superboy (clone) and other K's.

It's a writers ploy that is not always followed, and is only brought up if the plot demands Superman be the strongest.
Thanks

In this movie, I didn't get the impression Clark/Superman was stronger than the others, they seemed equally powered. It seems where he got his advantage was being more used to the superhearing and supervision which incapacitated Zod, because he hadn't learned to deal with the "flood" of so much sound and vision, he was unable to focus his ability to separate them all out.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 02:03 AM   #1466
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I found Superman's decision in the much-cited Superman #22 to be more questionable. He had more time to think it through, and he had already exposed the Kryptonians to Gold Kryptonite, which should have robbed them of their powers forever. But he didn't want to take the chance that they might somehow regain their powers (which were greater than his in that version) if he brought them to his Earth, so he executed them.

As he points out in the story, he had every right to do so...he was literally the only other person on that Earth, and thus the task of serving as judge, jury, and executioner on behalf of the billions that they'd murdered fell to him by default.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 02:48 AM   #1467
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The survivors of the destroyed Pocket-Earth told him to do anything it took to stop the Kryptonians. That means he possessed the legal authority to execute them.

It's not murder, he had the legal right to do so.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 03:12 AM   #1468
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

[Spock, raising eyebrow]I believe I said that.[/Spock raising eyebrow]
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 06:24 AM   #1469
GalaxyX
Rear Admiral
 
GalaxyX's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

As a side note. I hate the concept of gold kryptonite. What a stupid concept. How exactly do you "permanently" take away the powers of a being who by nature, soaks up radiation from the yellow sun and stores it in their cells? It would have to be something that not only can destroy genetic coding, but rewrite DNA to be exactly like a human being's.

Gold kryptonite assumes Kryptonians are humans who have extra powers. In reality, Kryptonians have no extra powers amongst themselves. For them, that level of strength and abilities is normal. It's only when compared to us humans that, relatively speaking, they are much different and far better physically than us.

This is why I stopped watching Smallville after the 4th Season. I could only take so much of Clark "permanently" losing his powers until some deux ex machina brought them back for him.
__________________
Top Gear America: Jay Leno, Adam Carolla, Tim Allen. DONE!
GalaxyX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2013, 07:41 AM   #1470
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Maybe it gives them the kryptonian equivalent of Leukemia?
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
christopher nolan, man of steel, superman

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.