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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 22 2013, 12:01 AM   #1441
kirk55555
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Wasp didn't die in SI. Even if she had, it was the skrull Pym who injected her. Thor just tried to contain her from what I remember. Goliath was killed by Ragnarok/clone Thor, and honestly the villains in Infinity are so boring I forgot he killed one, although another one with the same name/look would probably have popped up if given the opportunity.
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Old November 22 2013, 01:30 AM   #1442
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Also, brooding makes sense in a some situations, and when used sparringly. Both Goyer's Superman and Nolan's batman basically did it every second they were on screen, outside of a few rare moments. Other characters can brood at points, its not brooding itself thats the problem. Its making that a focus of the characters, like Goyer and Nolan did. When your character's main "emotion" is brood (and Clark basically brooded for two hours in MoS, with only a few brief moments doing something else) then its a problem.
I will certainly agree that Routh's Superman did far too much brooding in SR, but I didn't feel that with Cavill's Superman to nearly the same degree.

He might have seemed somewhat uncertain and curious as he traveled the world looking for answers, but that's different from how utterly sad and dejected Routh often appeared to be throughout his movie.

All I can think is people are projecting the somewhat gloomy tone of MOS onto Cavill's performance as well.
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Old November 22 2013, 01:35 AM   #1443
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Being Superman should be a weighty responsibility...I had no problem with that aspect of the film.
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Old November 22 2013, 09:42 AM   #1444
Wadjda
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Especially in this century when a there are less medi gatekeepers and a private video can ruin your life.
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Old November 22 2013, 11:06 AM   #1445
M.A.C.O.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Rewatching all the comic book films this week. Even GL which I totally forgot they made. I can't help but notice all the killing that is glossed over in the Marvel films. Looking just at the Avengers team, seriously ask yourself. WHAT IS IRON MAN'S FRAKKING BODY COUNT?




If not for the Super Solider Serum this would've surely killed Blonsky. But Hulk didn't know that and kicked him into a tree anyway.








That nuke had to rank up at least in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.

Iron Man 3 had those 3 dozen or so Extremis soldiers bite the dust. Thor TDW had it share of killing but most done not by Thor.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:30 PM   #1446
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

You noticed, too, huh?

We do seem to be giving the Marvel movies a pass on this, myself definitely included.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:38 PM   #1447
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Can we at least all agree that Superman would never choose to ruin quiet, character-defining scenes like the ones between Clark and Jonathan with a deliberately hyper-shaky camera?
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Old November 22 2013, 02:48 PM   #1448
Savage Dragon
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ok, the golden age version may have killed. This is about the most prevalent version of Superman, and the kind of crazy GA version was basically goneby the 50s, if not even sooner. For decades, from the silver age all the way to the eighties, he was the no kill Superman, and from COIE to 2011 it was still basically his thing to not kill, with just a few lapses that were usually a big deal and with much higher stakes on the line. He also usually had less choices in the matter, like with Doomsday.
So you are telling me that Zod wasn't as big a deal as Doomsday? I'd say the level of destruction Zod was capable of was totally on par with Doomsday, and Zod was just as big a threat.

Also, this is the only time we've seen this version of Superman kill. You're willing to allow "a few lapses" in the comics but not in the movies?

October, 1988. Guess who it was who killed billions? I'll give you a hint. The same guy who was going to kill billions in MoS.

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Old November 22 2013, 03:27 PM   #1449
M.A.C.O.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ TheSeeker go to page 91 of this thread. I posted that and other images of Superman #22.

The member JD posted this on page 92. Superman #22 and the other issues of The 1988 Supergirl Saga are also for sale.

JD wrote: View Post
Superman (1987-2006) #22 was added to Comixology and Nook Comics on May #15 of this year.
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Old November 22 2013, 05:10 PM   #1450
Savage Dragon
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

You'll need to give me a post number because the way I'm viewing the thread it is only at page 37. Also, I mentioned the fact that Superman has killed in the past way back in June in this post from this very thread.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at.
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Old November 22 2013, 06:50 PM   #1451
kirk55555
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ok, the golden age version may have killed. This is about the most prevalent version of Superman, and the kind of crazy GA version was basically goneby the 50s, if not even sooner. For decades, from the silver age all the way to the eighties, he was the no kill Superman, and from COIE to 2011 it was still basically his thing to not kill, with just a few lapses that were usually a big deal and with much higher stakes on the line. He also usually had less choices in the matter, like with Doomsday.
So you are telling me that Zod wasn't as big a deal as Doomsday? I'd say the level of destruction Zod was capable of was totally on par with Doomsday, and Zod was just as big a threat.

Also, this is the only time we've seen this version of Superman kill. You're willing to allow "a few lapses" in the comics but not in the movies?

October, 1988. Guess who it was who killed billions? I'll give you a hint. The same guy who was going to kill billions in MoS.
In the comics, the few times he killed was really a last resort. Even with all the other heroes in the DCU, at that point Doomsday wouldn't have been stopped short of death, since he wasn't even slightly rational. Its whole purpose was the killing of every living thing on Earth, even Joker isn't that dangerously insane (usually, and either way he's usually easier to stop).

In MoS, he really doesn't put too much thought into killing Zod. He may have thought he had no choice, but there were things he could of done. I think about it like this. The comic book Superman could have defeated Zod in that situation without killing him. Saying MoS Clark wasn't experienced is a cop out. He just isn't very good at what he does, and he didn't seem to even consider not killing him. If Superman gave in and killed every villain that was threatening people just because he was too stupid to, you know, fly upwards or move the guy's head or something, every one of his villains would be dead. In MoS, killing Zod was not his only alternative. He had other choices. He was either too stupid to think of them or decided not to use them.

As for Marvel deaths, again its a different situation, and usually life threatening. Yes, Tony Stark killed some of his kidnappers. It was literally life or death. The Hulk is a different situation too, although to be fair Blonsky almost dying is basically suicide by Hulk at that point. Its like blaming a train for killing someone because a person was stupid enough to charge the train head on. I've already talked about Thor being a warrior first, and never claiming that he doesn't kill, although he doesn't usually kill mortal villains. Cap is a soldier, and while he doesn't usually kill supervillains he's still not someone who has been about never killing. In IM3, the extremis deaths were mostly the fault of the people in question. They were crazy people that Tony couldn't stop normally.

I've never tried to say that some deaths in comics/movies don't make sense or aren't justified. Its just that in Man of Steel, Superman killing Zod was wrong. Even taking away the fact that Superman almost never kills, in that situation it was not his only alternative, and it wasn't something Superman would do.
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Old November 22 2013, 06:52 PM   #1452
JarodRussell
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I couldn't care less if he killed in past comics. Or that other superheroes have killed. I don't like it for that particular superhero. Especially when he kills already in his origin story.
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Old November 22 2013, 07:01 PM   #1453
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^Which could be the defining moment that leads to his no killing decision.
I mean he grew up on a farm. Snapping chicken necks, putting down animals that were wounded or mad would have been part of his normal upbringing. To see his remorse and horror at the killing of another being and then resolving for it not to happen again is a much stronger character development than just saying, oh he doesnt kill.
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Old November 22 2013, 07:06 PM   #1454
JarodRussell
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Well that's what I liked about Superman. He doesn't have to have a bad past in order to be good. I know a lot of people who grew up in stable families, etc... and they are good people.

I'm getting tired of the badly hurt superhero who has issues with his past. Superman is that one superhero who simply is good and stable.
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Old November 22 2013, 07:11 PM   #1455
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Yeah, thats a good way to say it. Superman is a good guy because he's just a good guy, he didn't have to go through/do bad things in order to become who he is.
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