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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 17 2013, 06:42 PM   #1396
Agent Richard07
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ I thought the score was pretty upbeat and every bit "Superman" as what we've had in the past. I don't remember what the rest of the music was like though.

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Old November 17 2013, 08:45 PM   #1397
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Well, I just rewatched on DVD. Had to extend it across three or four sessions as I started falling asleep twice last night during the action half. I have to think that's not what the filmmakers intended....

The drone scene really does have a jarring tone contrast. It would have worked much better as a mid-credits or end-credits scene. And would it have killed them to throw us a line or two addressing the passage of time and how Metropolis got shiny and new by the last scene?
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Old November 17 2013, 08:58 PM   #1398
Shanndee
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I wanted to like this movie, but I just don't. The only thing I took away from this film was a desire to see the movie about the Jor-El / Zod relationship, and somehow I don't think that was the point of "Man of Steel".

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Old November 18 2013, 01:09 AM   #1399
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ I thought the score was pretty upbeat and every bit "Superman" as what we've had in the past. I don't remember what the rest of the music was like though.

Most of it was based on the same chord progressions as the main theme, but with more minor chords (hence darker), particularly in the alien ship scenes.

The Smallville scenes had a very soft piano that was lacking any real emotion. I think some of the atmospheric themes in "The Book of Eli" and "Dredd" could have worked well in the Smallville scenes.

The main Superman theme was fine, but it was arranged as background filler, and needed some fanfare to jump out of it.


I think my desire to really like this movie is clouding my judgement of it though. When I went to see it in the theatre, it just overloaded me, and I walked out of the theatre feeling like I just spent 2hr watching someone else play a video game.

Watching it at home and letting it absorb, I find I'm letting some stuff slide. I would have loved to see more Smallville/Nomad stuff in the movie, it desperately needed more.

The whole bit about Superman needing to stop the World Builder in the indian ocean was a misstep in the movie. He needed to be in Metropolis saving people from the moment Zod activated his terraforming machines.

In general, they made the Kryptonians too powerful. The army fought hard but was completely useless, and Supes was completely outgunned by too many armoured Kryptonians.

The movie felt like Independence Day but with super powerful beings along with their technology.

I think better editing would have solved half the problems with the movie, with some small script changes.
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Old November 18 2013, 09:37 AM   #1400
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
The whole bit about Superman needing to stop the World Builder in the indian ocean was a misstep in the movie. He needed to be in Metropolis saving people from the moment Zod activated his terraforming machines.
I think the reason Superman did the one in the Indian Ocean first, is because Superman could get to it faster. Also if there hadn't been that hiccup with the SD crystal not going in completely in Kal-El's shuttle. The plan would've worked a lot faster than it was shown in the film. Plus it got humanity involved defending their world. Which is nice.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
In general, they made the Kryptonians too powerful. The army fought hard but was completely useless, and Supes was completely outgunned by too many armoured Kryptonians.

The movie felt like Independence Day but with super powerful beings along with their technology.

I think better editing would have solved half the problems with the movie, with some small script changes.

I think the K's display of power were right on. Looking at the various comic adaptions of Superman in action : Superman the Animated Series, Justice League, Superman: Doomsday, Superman vs The Elite, Superman: Unbound. Superman and other K's have always displayed that level of power.

Where MOS i think failed to thread the needle adequately, is displaying super strong and invulnerable people hitting eachother endlessly and keeping that action interesting. Marvel has the same problem when you see characters like Thor, the Hulk, The Thing, Juggernaut, Colossus, She-Hulk, Hercules and various other super strong characters (Red Hulk, Abomination, Black Bolt, Sentry etc) fight one another. There is always some outside influence or tactical advantage the Marvel characters have that insures their victory. With MOS there is no advantage Supes or Zod and his followers can exploit. They are all equal under the sun.


With regards to the level of destruction you're right. However it's not uncommon for parties from both Marvel and DC to gloss over this. Thor and Hercules once had a battle in NYC over Jane Foster. Both being equal in terms of strength and invulnerability. They wrecked the city and by the end of it everyone is cheering Herc for his victory. No one paid mind to the destruction the two caused.

It's a tough needle to thread. I think Zack Snyder was faithful to the characters and their abilities but in trying to show and tell that story. People were unsettled by the level of destruction it caused. Hopefully Snyder made that intentional and addresses it in his sequels.

Last edited by AllStarEntprise; November 18 2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old November 18 2013, 12:43 PM   #1401
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Just because it's not uncommon doesn't mean it's not stupid.
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Old November 19 2013, 02:01 AM   #1402
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
As results from this thread, the posters who dislike 'man of steel' do so due to veiled 'the movie raped my childhood' type arguments:
-they want the movie to be a traditional fairy-tale where Superman never has to face no-win situations (that almost invariably come to pass in crisis - wars, catastrophes, etc - in the real world), where he can always save the day while making sure no puppy has a scratch on him;
-they reproach Superman that he failed to be perfect, by having help from his father for example (despite his father being far more knowledgeable about the threat Earth faced);
-they dislike the Superman costume because it has no traditional external panties;
etc

Overall, unconvincing - at least if one has no deep attachment/nostalgia for vintage Superman comics, etc.
That might be a bit harsh. I think what it really comes down to is whether one is fine with the edgier and grittier take on the character, and with the heavy emphasis on action.

Those who are fine with that approach, like me, ended up loving the hell out of the movie. But those who aren't just can't seem to get into the movie at all.

Frankly I never expected the edgier approach to be such a tough sell. I figured a lot more people would be really into the idea of a more "real world" Superman, and looking at the story through more of a documentary-style lense.

I might have a few little issues with the storytelling, but the style and approach itself I thought were fantastic, and more than enough to make up for any other issues.
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Old November 19 2013, 02:42 AM   #1403
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I am a firm believer that Superman killed Zod at the end of Superman II. Also, Superman has killed before.



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Old November 19 2013, 03:32 AM   #1404
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Is that Pre-Crisis? Then it doesn't count
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Old November 19 2013, 03:33 AM   #1405
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Actually post-Crisis, pre-Byrne reboot.
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Old November 19 2013, 03:34 AM   #1406
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

And even in the example he talks about his oath not to kill.

Can't have that oath in the new films.

“I promise I will never kill anyone...“ SNAP “...again.“


As stated before, all that devastation in the climax, and that Superman is basically broken by having to kill someone... That's the end of an arc, not the beginning. The new Superman starts off as someone who a) was the reason why the bad guys came here, b) couldn't prevent major destruction, c) caused major destruction himself and d) killed his enemies. Such a guy would NEVER ever become the inspiring role model that Superman is supposed to be.
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Old November 19 2013, 03:59 AM   #1407
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I'm confused, Byrne's Man of Steel mini series is what introduced Superman post-Crisis. How can there be a story post-Crisis pre-Byrne?
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Old November 19 2013, 04:00 AM   #1408
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And even in the example he talks about his oath not to kill.

Can't have that oath in the new films.

“I promise I will never kill anyone...“ SNAP “...again.“


As stated before, all that devastation in the climax, and that Superman is basically broken by having to kill someone... That's the end of an arc, not the beginning. The new Superman starts off as someone who a) was the reason why the bad guys came here, b) couldn't prevent major destruction, c) caused major destruction himself and d) killed his enemies. Such a guy would NEVER ever become the inspiring role model that Superman is supposed to be.
Actually, it would be more inspiring for someone to overcome such obstacles rather than simply "be inspiring" because they're supposed to be.
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Old November 19 2013, 04:06 AM   #1409
The Old Mixer
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And even in the example he talks about his oath not to kill.

Can't have that oath in the new films.

“I promise I will never kill anyone...“ SNAP “...again.“


As stated before, all that devastation in the climax, and that Superman is basically broken by having to kill someone... That's the end of an arc, not the beginning. The new Superman starts off as someone who a) was the reason why the bad guys came here, b) couldn't prevent major destruction, c) caused major destruction himself and d) killed his enemies. Such a guy would NEVER ever become the inspiring role model that Superman is supposed to be.
It could be the event that causes the new film version to take up an oath against killing again...a new origin for the oath.

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I'm confused, Byrne's Man of Steel mini series is what introduced Superman post-Crisis. How can there be a story post-Crisis pre-Byrne?
The various reboots of individual series, hard and soft, were published for years following the Crisis mini-series. The version of Superman who came out of the Crisis was still the Silver/Bronze-Age version. The Byrne reboot didn't happen for about a half year after the Crisis ended. In-between, stories continued to be published in the old continuity.

The story represented above was the sendoff story of that version of the character. And he did the honorable thing after breaking his oath...he exposed himself to Gold Kryptonite, sacrificing his powers forever, grew a 'stache, and disappeared into the obscurity of a new identity. That he went and married Lois Lane wouldn't have been a dead giveaway as to who he really was, no....
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Old November 19 2013, 04:18 AM   #1410
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Oh, was that from Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? I've read that. I didn't know it came out after Crisis though!
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