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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 26 2013, 05:52 AM   #916
theenglish
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote:
The way I see it, Superman looks like a god from the outside, but he’s a person from his point of view.
I think that encapsulates what Man of Steel was really trying to convey. And, on the whole, it succeeded. In fact, this is what makes Superman's character compelling. What a perfect way to get at the heart of this interpretation of Superman.
Agreed. Despite what the critics say, I thought the movie did a fantastic job humanizing Superman and making his journey relatable, while at the same time keeping him the inspiring, larger than life icon of the comics. Which is a pretty neat trick to pull off.

And they were also able to humanize him without making him the glum and melancholy figure of SR, which I appreciate as well. I'm a big fan of that movie, but I frankly thought MOS did a much better job at nailing his character and making it work.
I just got out to see the movie and I agree with this completely. The flashbacks fit nicely with the story, and I didn't see Clark as being overly somber at all. Sure there were many traumatic moments we see from his life, but in his interactions with his mother and Lois as an adult--and with the military--he really comes across as being the Superman personality we have known for years (meaning the Byrne Superman).

I hope we continue to see flashbacks in future movies. I would really like to see how his relationship with Pete develops. We see Pete as the bully, but we also see him regretful, and it would be an interesting dynamic to see them become friends as adults.

BTW--what was supposed to be the ending for the original Donner film if it wasn't time travel? Clark races to Lois' aid and gives her the super kiss of CPR?
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Old June 26 2013, 05:52 AM   #917
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Zod being the cliffhanger would have been cool as long as they got rid of the time travel thing entirely. They should have Lois keep her memory of Clark being Superman too.
Who says they didn't?

I had the very distinct impression from the end of the movie that Lois knew exactly who he was.
Well, Superman Returns implies that the kiss never worked.
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Old June 26 2013, 05:53 AM   #918
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

sojourner wrote: View Post
Jax wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Was anyone else expecting Lois to completely forget about Superman being Clark Kent after the kiss?
I was waiting for him to turn the planet around, which somehow can affect the space time continuum. God the 2nd half of Superman (1978) is horrendous
People always misinterpret that scene. He's not turning the planet around. He's flying faster than light to go back in time. We as the audience get to see that represented as the planet turning in the opposite direction.
But then as Trekker mentioned, why did he have to turn around and go back the other direction, returning the Earth to its normal rotation? If he's just traveling back in time and overshot a bit, just wait a few minutes. Or even better, prevent the earthquake in the first place, since (by one theory of time travel) there's now two Supermans - one to stop each nuke - though that might have happened offscreen. But to me, the scene definitely implies that he spun the Earth itself to turn back time.

All the silliness about spinning the Earth aside, I think it's an awesome scene, especially when he cries out in pain over Lois' death and goes all aggro on the space/time continuum in defiance of Jor-El's cloud head (Jor-El should have asked Mufasa's cloud head to help, it's hard to refuse that voice).

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Old June 26 2013, 06:25 AM   #919
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I thought having Superman exercise the truly God-like power of turning back time, as he did in the 1978 film, was a beautiful and brilliant choice. It was the climax of many themes.
  • Jor-El's view of sending him to Earth to light the way,
  • His being forbidden by Jor-El to interfere in human history,
  • Pa's view his being here for a reason,
  • His question to Pa of whether it was wrong for a bird to fly because it has wings,
  • His anguish at being unable to save Pa, despite having all his powers,
  • His love for Lois.
Ultimately, it was Superman balancing all that and coming into his own as a being of almost limitless power.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
But then as Trekker mentioned, why did he have to turn around and go back the other direction, returning the Earth to its normal rotation?
"Temporal inertia?"
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Old June 26 2013, 06:43 AM   #920
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Like I said in a previous post.. I don't think he was literally using his speed to rotate the earth in the other direction to change time. I think that the Kryptonians, as portrayed in the film, have some control over time, to a limited degree. It is their most awesome power and Jor-El didn't want him to use it
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Old June 26 2013, 07:36 AM   #921
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^That would be a power never portrayed in the comics as I understand them.
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Old June 26 2013, 08:04 AM   #922
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Maybe not, but there are hints scattered throughout the film, such as Jor-El's ability to take his sone through space on a journey of exploration even though only 12 years pass during his training. There are other clues as well.

That's my theory. I think one of the things that makes film as a medium less effective is that we are presented with it all: sounds, images, and music, and as a result, we tend to take everything at face value, and when it comes to something like this people are put off. I don't think he was literally spinning the Earth backwards and that alone wouldn't rewind time.

Of course, Donner has become a bit of a snot. Listen to hid "Donner cut" commentary to hear his holier-than-though tone. If you ask him now, he'd deny what I believe and say that yeah, it's literally what Superman was doing.

but I think my theory works.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:12 AM   #923
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Jax wrote: View Post

I was waiting for him to turn the planet around, which somehow can affect the space time continuum. God the 2nd half of Superman (1978) is horrendous
People always misinterpret that scene. He's not turning the planet around. He's flying faster than light to go back in time. We as the audience get to see that represented as the planet turning in the opposite direction.
But then as Trekker mentioned, why did he have to turn around and go back the other direction, returning the Earth to its normal rotation? If he's just traveling back in time and overshot a bit, just wait a few minutes. Or even better, prevent the earthquake in the first place, since (by one theory of time travel) there's now two Supermans - one to stop each nuke - though that might have happened offscreen. But to me, the scene definitely implies that he spun the Earth itself to turn back time.

All the silliness about spinning the Earth aside, I think it's an awesome scene, especially when he cries out in pain over Lois' death and goes all aggro on the space/time continuum in defiance of Jor-El's cloud head (Jor-El should have asked Mufasa's cloud head to help, it's hard to refuse that voice).

Not to mention his flying that fast sort of undoes the whole "even you with your great speed couldn't stop both missiles at once!" Huh, I guess he can.
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Old June 26 2013, 12:12 PM   #924
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Not to mention his flying that fast sort of undoes the whole "even you with your great speed couldn't stop both missiles at once!" Huh, I guess he can.
Well, he could, and he did.

But the price was that he had to disobey, or at least (as it were) disappoint, both his fathers: Jor-El, by interfering in human history; and Pa, by falling short of the reason for his being sent to Earth. Apparently, there wasn't any other way.

At least he was able to stay true to the spirit of what they were trying to teach him, and not let it go to his head.
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Old June 26 2013, 12:20 PM   #925
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I finally watched it last night. Here's what I thought:

There was definitely more about 'Man of Steel' that I liked than I disliked, but I did have some reservations. Most of those were with the action-packed second half, though, as I quite enjoyed most of the movie's first half. That's something I wouldn't have expected from a Zack Snyder film: I actually liked the quieter moments more than most of the big action stuff. Especially the final fight, while visually impressive, felt unnecessary (and unnecessarily violent). There had been plenty of mayhem up to that point and I would have preferred some more character development and an acknowledgement of the human toll of all the destruction to yet more fighting and destruction.


I don't generally object to approaching iconic characters in a fresh, different way, but I feel that this movie lost some of what makes Superman so iconic in the first place in the process. While I thought that the marvelously realized depiction of Krypton at the beginning of the movie was quite compelling, I couldn't help but feel that some of the essence of the character Superman (namely his earnest, aspirational qualities) was missing, and that it wasn't replaced by anything equally interesting. There are some plot points about eugenics and planetary atmospheres thrown in there, but neither of them lead to much or make much sense.


Nevertheless, I can't deny that it's a beautiful film with a very distinctive sense of style and some kick-ass action scenes, and I did enjoy a lot of the character scenes, too. The actors are well cast and get a lot out of their characters, even if some of their motivations aren't as clear as I would have liked them to be.


I give it a 7/10.
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Old June 26 2013, 06:28 PM   #926
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Dream wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Jax wrote: View Post

I was waiting for him to turn the planet around, which somehow can affect the space time continuum. God the 2nd half of Superman (1978) is horrendous

People always misinterpret that scene. He's not turning the planet around. He's flying faster than light to go back in time. We as the audience get to see that represented as the planet turning in the opposite direction.
The Reeve Superman movies pretty much had a Silver Age Superman, who can do whatever he wanted. Some fans might not like that, but that is just the way it is.
Yep - It was Silver Age Superman in the 1978 film (which was why he couldn't just as quickly CLOSE the lid on the lead-lined box with the Kryptonite in it, as when he opened it.)
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Old June 26 2013, 08:38 PM   #927
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Max Landis, the writer of Chronicle, has a few things to say about Man of Steel. I loved the movie, but at the same time I can't deny he does bring up some good points. Now I'd be very interested to see his take on a Superman movie.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:10 PM   #928
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
Max Landis, the writer of Chronicle, has a few things to say about Man of Steel. I loved the movie, but at the same time I can't deny he does bring up some good points. Now I'd be very interested to see his take on a Superman movie.
I don't know - he's entertaining, but he's sending some mixed messages here. First he says Superman should be a "regular guy from Kansas, who happens to be an alien", then he says he should be better than everyone else and an adult among children. Which is it?

Then he says what's appealing about Superman is that instead of absolute power corrupting absolutely, in Superman's case absolute power equals absolute goodness. I agree that this is what we love about Superman, but from a storytelling point of view to have that simply occur - is not very interesting. It can be appealing in a childish sort of way, but superheroes have long since ceased to be kiddie fare. What is interesting is to see how it is that someone with that level of power struggles through the temptations of absolute power and again and again makes the choice to use the power for absolute good.

What critics seem to be missing about MoS is that is chapter one in the story of a regular guy from Kansas, who happens to be an alien and who does have an innate sense of heroism (Joseph Campbell defines the hero as someone who gives oneself to something bigger than themselves and has an instinct for protecting/ helping/ giving to others), and how he learns to use his power for absolute good. The fact that this is a struggle seems to be upsetting a lot of people - but isn't that what makes a character have... character?

I fear this may be why it's so hard to make a Superman movie - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he has no internal struggle and is just perfectly good from the get go, he's a static, boring character that no one can relate to. If he has an internal struggle and has to learn how to be perfectly good, then he's dismissed as an angsty, emo, not-really-Superman character that no one can admire. Though the notion that you can't admire someone because they aren't just created of whole cloth with a perfect moral compass and the knowledge of how to protect um, everyone on the planet while getting your ass royally kicked for the first time in your life seems kinda bizarre.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:23 PM   #929
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I agree Lapsis. It seems that most critics seem to set up their vision of what Superman should be and then attack the movie from that perspective. Superman has not been that type of hero in the comics for quite awhile.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:58 PM   #930
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
I fear this may be why it's so hard to make a Superman movie - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he has no internal struggle and is just perfectly good from the get go, he's a static, boring character that no one can relate to. If he has an internal struggle and has to learn how to be perfectly good, then he's dismissed as an angsty, emo, not-really-Superman character that no one can admire. Though the notion that you can't admire someone because they aren't just created of whole cloth with a perfect moral compass and the knowledge of how to protect um, everyone on the planet while getting your ass royally kicked for the first time in your life seems kinda bizarre.
Yeah I've never understood this desire to have Superman be a perfect and flawless hero who always does the right thing and never has doubts or fears about anything.

Or they'll even argue that Superman is not supposed to be relatable; he should just be a noble, larger than life icon and nothing else. Which I just do not understand at all.
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