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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 22 2013, 12:06 AM   #676
Nerys Myk
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

feek61 wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Is it me or is it bad direction that Superman saves the family by snapping Zod's neck, we never see the family again, not even in any of the medium or wide shots of the the set.
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
It's you.
I have to agree with the first. It's true that the audience is only supposed to enjoy Superman killing, provided he feels terrible for a few seconds, but the manifest content of the scene says that he (and we) do care. Which would dictate some sort of visual closure. It's a minor flaw I think, not enough to prevent your enjoyment of the good things about the movie. But how does liking the movie mean you think it's perfect?
Honestly this is one of the things that really bothered me about the movie. They both fell from space, crashed through numerous buildings, had major fist fights and then Superman simply snaps his neck. Didn't ring true to me. Why didn't he do that at the beginning of Zodd's arrival and save Metropolis from destruction. It was a very weak resolve; very weak.
Because he didn't want to. It went against how he was raised and what he believes in. It was a last ditched desperate move.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:10 AM   #677
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Is it me or is it bad direction that Superman saves the family by snapping Zod's neck, we never see the family again, not even in any of the medium or wide shots of the the set.
I don't think there's any mystery that they lived. Superman saving them, and everybody else on Earth, was the whole point of the scene.

There are plenty of ways in which showing the family still alive would have ruined the scene. "Aw, gee, thanks for saving us," in the style of earlier Superman films, and anything even suggesting that, would be among the more obvious ways to ruin the scene.

Is the way it was most ideal? Possibly not. But is it actually "bad"? I don't think so.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:22 AM   #678
Kestrel
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I didn't say she's never had them. But what I meant was that she wasn't IN one.
Is there a reason she should be?
Exactly. There's plenty of possible reasons for her not to be that aren't relevant.

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Lois Lane has yet to find a boyfriend, husband or at least a serious relationship? It doesn't seem to "feel right", I guess, more so in Superman's case.
What? Where do you get this from? Ok, pretty clearly no husband, but where do you draw the conclusion she's never had a boyfriend or serious relationship?
A lot of real people place other things above dating or romantic relationships. Education, career, hobbies, what have you. That a character in a movie did the same thing is not at all unbelievable.
Indeed.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:38 AM   #679
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

feek61 wrote: View Post
Honestly this is one of the things that really bothered me about the movie. They both fell from space, crashed through numerous buildings, had major fist fights and then Superman simply snaps his neck. Didn't ring true to me. Why didn't he do that at the beginning of Zodd's arrival and save Metropolis from destruction. It was a very weak resolve; very weak.
Well I don't think he ever had the opportunity until then. And as had been established pretty well by that point, Clark had been raised by his parents to avoid confrontation and violence, so snapping a guy's neck was probably the LAST thing he could ever see himself doing.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I don't think there's any mystery that they lived. Superman saving them, and everybody else on Earth, was the whole point of the scene.

There are plenty of ways in which showing the family still alive would have ruined the scene. "Aw, gee, thanks for saving us," in the style of earlier Superman films, and anything even suggesting that, would be among the more obvious ways to ruin the scene.
Agreed. I think the focus at the end of that scene needed to be on Superman and the anguish he felt over killing Zod.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:51 AM   #680
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
feek61 wrote: View Post
Honestly this is one of the things that really bothered me about the movie. They both fell from space, crashed through numerous buildings, had major fist fights and then Superman simply snaps his neck. Didn't ring true to me. Why didn't he do that at the beginning of Zodd's arrival and save Metropolis from destruction. It was a very weak resolve; very weak.
Well I don't think he ever had the opportunity until then. And as had been established pretty well by that point, Clark had been raised by his parents to avoid confrontation and violence, so snapping a guy's neck was probably the LAST thing he could ever see himself doing.
Exactly. How anyone could interpret it any other way is beyond me.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:56 AM   #681
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

So I saw the flick and thought it was good. It was a lot better than what the critics are suggesting. If nothing else, the fight scenes and visual fx were so spectacular that they helped paper-over issues I had with the story.

One thing i believe could have improved the movie was emphasizing that what makes Clark a true hero is his innate peaceful nature and goodness - not his powers.

He's facing off with these trained Kryptonian killers - and despite his powers he can't match their fighting skills or killer instinct. Also, they outnumber him. He is over-matched and barely survives his fights with them.

But I thought it would have been more interesting if they reveal before the climax that the reason he's been losing so badly is not because he can't match them physically but because he is holding back. In fact, he is more powerful than they are. After all, he's been under a yellow sun all his life, while they just arrived there (of course, we might know this from some versions of comic book canon, but it's not like the general audience would).

And maybe he could have some inner-conflict with himself with the deceased Jonathan Kent representing his conscience telling him it's okay to let go and do what he has to do. He's been holding back all his life (like against those childhood bullies and that guy in the bar), but it's okay now because the stakes are so high.

I'm not necessarily against him killing Zod, but I felt the whole great power vs. great responsibility aspect could have been played up more and would have improved the movie as well as deepening the character and making him more "Super". Just imo.

Last edited by Agenda; June 22 2013 at 01:07 AM.
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Old June 22 2013, 01:08 AM   #682
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Agenda wrote: View Post
One thing i believe could have improved the movie was emphasizing that what makes Clark a true hero is his innate peaceful nature and goodness - not his powers.

He's facing off with these trained Kryptonian killers - and despite his powers he can't match their fighting skills or killer instinct. Also, they outnumber him. He is over-matched and barely survives his fights with them.

But I thought it would have been more interesting if they reveal before the climax that the reason he's been losing so badly is not because he can't match them physically but because he is holding back. In fact, he is more powerful than they are. After all, he's been under a yellow sun all his life, while they just arrived there (of course, we might know this from some versions of comic book canon, but it's not like the general audience would).
I thought Clark's innate goodness came through pretty strongly in the movie. Although I do your idea might have made for a pretty cool twist (kinda like when Supes crushes Zod's hand at the end of SII).
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Old June 22 2013, 01:09 AM   #683
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I was mainly talking about the direction of the scene. the family is saved, but the continuity people forgot that they were still on that set when it went into a wide shot. That was mainly what I was talking about. It doesn't begin to address my problems with this "film."
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Old June 22 2013, 01:14 AM   #684
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
feek61 wrote: View Post
Honestly this is one of the things that really bothered me about the movie. They both fell from space, crashed through numerous buildings, had major fist fights and then Superman simply snaps his neck. Didn't ring true to me. Why didn't he do that at the beginning of Zodd's arrival and save Metropolis from destruction. It was a very weak resolve; very weak.
Well I don't think he ever had the opportunity until then. And as had been established pretty well by that point, Clark had been raised by his parents to avoid confrontation and violence, so snapping a guy's neck was probably the LAST thing he could ever see himself doing.
Exactly. How anyone could interpret it any other way is beyond me.
Well, they were in DIRECT contact for the last (seemed like) hours of the movie during the fight scene. So, because Superman was "brought up" different; to avoid conflict, he let the city be destroyed and presumably thousands of humans be killed? Really? Maybe this movie is worse than I thought!! What made him change his mind? I guess I'm too stupid to "get it."
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Old June 22 2013, 01:19 AM   #685
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Killing is the absolute very last resort, Superman will always try and to "find another way" and we see in this movie killing Zod was not something he wanted to do but, ultimately, had to do and he hated it.

Now what his alternatives were is another question is another discussion, but at that moment Superman felt he had absolutely no other choice. He HAD to kill at that point until that moment there were, potentially, other ways.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:11 AM   #686
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Killing is the absolute very last resort, Superman will always try and to "find another way" and we see in this movie killing Zod was not something he wanted to do but, ultimately, had to do and he hated it.

Now what his alternatives were is another question is another discussion, but at that moment Superman felt he had absolutely no other choice. He HAD to kill at that point until that moment there were, potentially, other ways.
Um, yeah. This.

Plus, I didn't really believe that Superman deliberately allowed himself to get punched through buildings. Anyone who thought he did was watching a different movie than I was. Superman's hands were mighty full.

Superman versus the other Kryptonians was the first major test of both Superman's new-found powers and of Zod's. Both of them learned to better use their powers in the course of the conflict.

It's also worth pointing out (if not pointing out again) that Zod was only going to get stronger. If time wore on indefinitely, he would be an even match for Superman, if not better, given his caste, no matter how able Superman became. The moment when Superman had the upper hand was only temporary, at best.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:25 AM   #687
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Now that I think about it, I do kinda wish we saw more of an adjustment period for both Superman and the supervillains. It seems like once the fight starts, they're both flying and zipping around like they've been doing it forever.

At the very least, it would have been nice to see the same surprised, "holy shit" reaction from Faora that we saw from Ursa when she discovered the amazing superpowers she suddenly had. I always got a kick out of that.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:30 AM   #688
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Perhaps I misinterpreted the whole thing. It seems to me that Superman was pretty much outmatched thru the entire movie, and didn't even have a chance to think about killing Zod, simply because he hadn't had the opportunity to do it (basically just struggling not to get killed himself)

But at the end, when the other baddies were eliminated, and Zod's armor was damaged, at that point they were on more equal terms, so Supes had a better chance actually be in a position to kill Zod, and this is what happened at the end, and the only time Supes really had a chance to actually have to consider doing it, and why it hurt him so much afterwards.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:31 AM   #689
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Now that I think about it, I do kinda wish we saw more of an adjustment period for both Superman and the supervillains. It seems like once the fight starts, they're both flying and zipping around like they've been doing it forever.

At the very least, it would have been nice to see the same surprised, "holy shit" reaction from Faora that we saw from Ursa when she discovered the amazing superpowers she suddenly had. I always got a kick out of that.
The evil Kryptonians were just jumping really high in all the fights. Only Zod was able to learn how to fly after he took off his armor during the final fight.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:36 AM   #690
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Now that I think about it, I do kinda wish we saw more of an adjustment period for both Superman and the supervillains. It seems like once the fight starts, they're both flying and zipping around like they've been doing it forever.

At the very least, it would have been nice to see the same surprised, "holy shit" reaction from Faora that we saw from Ursa when she discovered the amazing superpowers she suddenly had. I always got a kick out of that.
Well, there certainly should have been an adjustment period for Zod and the others it seemed like after their initial trouble when they lost power to their helmets they managed their powers and such rather well. Superman's been living on Earth his whole life so naturally he's adapted to all of his powers other than flying but after bing able to super-jump for so long it wasn't too much of a alteration to go to flying?

I liked how the X-Ray vision was portrayed in this movie as it's sort of how I always thought of it. It's not a power he can turn on or off he just simply has really, really, precise vision to be able to see through molecules so he sees "everything at once." Same with his telescopic/microscopic vision, he doesn't necessarily "zoom in" to things he just has 20/.00000000 vision. Over time he's just learned to focus and reign those things in to the point of being able to control these things and use them when he wants them. Sort of how one can focus intently on something blocking out peripheral and even most direct vision or unfocus and get it all at once in a blur.

Superman's unfocused "blurry vision" is just simply seeing through things, seeing great distances and possibly seeing thins in a microscopic level.
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