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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 16 2013, 09:07 PM   #271
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Even adjusted for inflation (which is bullshit, BTW) this looks to do a little better over the four-day than the first Iron Man movie did, which is very good; that's about where Warner Bros is right now.
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Old June 16 2013, 09:42 PM   #272
Cookies and Cake
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

SPOILERS follow. (Can this be a thread defaulting to spoilers, please? Maybe a mod can put that in the thread title? Thanks.)

I left with a feeling of elation after seeing MoS, so overall I have a positive reaction.

Including the Donner cut of Superman II, I'm going to count a total of seven Superman films to date. For me, SR goes in the bottom heap with III and IV, and frankly, I'd rather rewatch the camp-fest that is III than either of those others (IV's clearly the worst, though). The middle two would have to be the two Superman II's, with the Donner cut clearly on top.

So that just leaves the 1978 film and MoS in the top tier. Which is better? For me, for the time being, it's apples and oranges. Both have their strengths, and both have weaknesses. For MoS, I'm most likely going to end up saying it deserves something in the B+/A-/A range, but I'll need to see it at least a few more times to make a final decision.

What follows is an incomplete list of my reactions.

The cast was pretty much perfect across the board in every case. So, no need to drone on about that.

The "epilogue" as it were in the Daily Planet at the end was fantabulous. "Welcome to the Planet": what a wonderful pun. How wonderful that up front Lois knows his identity. No, I'm going to give a standing ovation to Amy Adams, after all. She was perfect.

The Pa Kent scenes were astonishing. As for maybe Clark should have let the kids on the bus die, because there's more at stake than just kids on a bus: hell, yeah, indeed. And Pa put his money where his mouth was. America is not just the beneficiary of Clark's powers. The whole world is; he saved the world.

OK, more droning about the cast, after all. Ma Kent was fabulous. Perry was fabulous. Zod was fabulous. Jor-El was fabulous. Faora was fabulous. The cast was fabulous.

(I loved the shot with Toby, Stabler, and Gaeta. A nice little wink to the audience that, yeah, we know you've seen all them before.)

(Also, was Jenny supposed to be Jenny Olsen?)

I like how the plot stayed ahead of the curve in terms of Clark being on scene and Lois not being an idiot. It was logical for Zod to bring up Lois to his ship, since she was the one who broke the story about Kal-El (by proxy; seems Zod easily tapped into the Internet, as would be expected).

The oil rig scene was actually pretty emotional, although I didn't like the way the first super-hop as executed, before he held the tower up. It was emotional, because for all the oil workers knew, he died saving them.

OK, here come the gripes.

The Codex was way too easy to steal. As an unauthorized breeder, Lara was a criminal and should have been on her way to punishment of some sort, probably to the Phantom Zone also. (ETA: Buzzkill's right, I should temper this. I don't know she was a criminal; what I meant to say, and should have said, was that based on everything I saw, I would have been surprised if she wasn't. It seemed puzzling to me that Lara was not also standing trial, given the fact that she and Jor-El felt it necessary to hide Kal-El's birth, given Zod's revulsion to Kal-El's natural birth, and given Jor-El's explanation that natural births had been halted long ago. I felt there needed to be a better sense of why security around the Codex, and regarding the integrity of Kryptonian breeding, was so lax, since their whole race was relying on the technological substitute for natural childbirth.)

If Zod was really genetically bred to be the defender of Krypton, then he should have surrendered to Kal-El once his ship was sent to the Phantom Zone at the first climax. For, Kal-El, with the Codex, literally embodied whatever future Krypton has.

The fistfights were ultimately too repetitive. The point of things getting smashed up was actually made during the scene where Kal-El taught himself to fly, when he broke the mountain, which was an excellent scene by the way. After the first punches were thrown, there was nowhere that anybody making the film knew to go but around in circles and, frankly, down. By the time people were getting punched through buildings, it was really very boring, and all kinda been there, done that. But we had to watch them get punched through buildings a dozen more times after that, it seemed.

The most dramatic elements in the fistfights were things like Faora breaking that last soldier's neck, right before Stabler said it was a good day to die/how you die/whatever, and didn't require millions of dollars in SFX to be effective. But on the other hand, why would she just continue to let the bomber approach with what's obviously a piece of Kryptonian technology being delivered according to some battle plan? As soon as the Kryptonians showed up on the cargo plane, I figured that plan was over. Without Superman around, it should have been a cinch for them to bring the plane down and/or get the Kryptonian tech off the plane. Too much time elapsed on the plane once the Kryptonians arrived.

All the dust and debris floating around might have been plausible or even realistic, but it didn't make the film any fun. Kinda made it a downer really, since with all the pieces of paper floating around, all I could think of was 9/11 again.

The palette was too washed out.

I wasn't wholly thrilled with the Kryptonian art design, particularly when it came to the craft. However, that comic-book style presentation of Krypton history was magnificent.
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Last edited by Cookies and Cake; June 17 2013 at 03:14 AM. Reason: corrections
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Old June 16 2013, 09:48 PM   #273
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the intricacies of Kryptonian law to have any idea what the criminal sanctions for natural breeding were at the time that those scenes take place - and since no one specifies any I have to assume that what Lara did was not a major felony if a violation at all.
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Old June 16 2013, 09:54 PM   #274
Cookies and Cake
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Yeah, that's something I'm going to be watching out for on my next viewing.

But why would it be so easy to steal something like the Codex? Maybe they had some sort of honor system when it came to breeding?
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Old June 16 2013, 11:06 PM   #275
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I enjoyed the film. Thought the cast was fantastic. The plot was weak though, and the action scenes just dragged on too long. I caught myself ceiling-staring a couple of times. Never a good sign for an action film.

You know who I think this film really needed? Stuart Baird.

Seriously.
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Old June 16 2013, 11:14 PM   #276
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^^^Maybe they just couldn't imagine any Kryptonian citizen stealing it.

And...maybe, after their outrage at Jor-El suggesting they evacuate the planet cooled a bit...they hoped he would take it and find a safe place for it.
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Old June 16 2013, 11:33 PM   #277
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Yeah, that's something I'm going to be watching out for on my next viewing.

But why would it be so easy to steal something like the Codex? Maybe they had some sort of honor system when it came to breeding?

Jor'El was one of their leading scientists. I would presume that he had access to it to begin with?
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Old June 16 2013, 11:38 PM   #278
Cookies and Cake
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

sojourner wrote: View Post
Jor'El was one of their leading scientists. I would presume that he had access to it to begin with?
If Jor-El had access to the Codex, why was he challenged by a robot threatening him with a class B offense for taking it?

If he didn't have access to it, why was the greatest trouble he had to go through to get his hands on it apparently only swimming underwater?
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Old June 16 2013, 11:59 PM   #279
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I like how the drones' interface was like one of those bed of pins thing you used to get at Spencer's Gifts.
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Old June 17 2013, 12:34 AM   #280
Gojira
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Jor'El was one of their leading scientists. I would presume that he had access to it to begin with?
If Jor-El had access to the Codex, why was he challenged by a robot threatening him with a class B offense for taking it?

If he didn't have access to it, why was the greatest trouble he had to go through to get his hands on it apparently only swimming underwater?

I think there is a difference between being allowed access to something and being allowed to take it.
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Old June 17 2013, 12:46 AM   #281
Cookies and Cake
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Gojira wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Jor'El was one of their leading scientists. I would presume that he had access to it to begin with?
If Jor-El had access to the Codex, why was he challenged by a robot threatening him with a class B offense for taking it?

If he didn't have access to it, why was the greatest trouble he had to go through to get his hands on it apparently only swimming underwater?

I think there is a difference between being allowed access to something and being allowed to take it.
If Jor-El was allowed to access the Codex at all, then why did he have to swim underwater to get to it? (ETA: My point is that the chamber didn't seem intended for anyone to access it at all. Was there no way to get to it without going underwater?)

It seems the intent was that he was not allowed to either access or take it, at least at that time. However, the safeguards to prevent Jor-El from acting in unauthorized ways around the Codex were minimal to non-existent.

Now, I suppose there could have been only minimal safeguards, because Kryptonians just weren't expected to act outside the purviews of their castes. On the other hand, they did have the Phantom Zone, so crime was not a foreign concept to them. The Codex had to be among the most critical artifacts of their entire culture, so it's hard for me to assume that it wouldn't occur to them to protect the Codex.

Perhaps Jor-El nullified some of the security, but I just don't recall anything like that happening. I'll keep my eyes open on next viewing.
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Old June 17 2013, 01:04 AM   #282
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Oh I forgot, I had a huge problem with Clark standing by and watching his dad get killed. That was unacceptable to me. He could have run forward to help him out, and maybe it would have been suspicious, it's his father's life!

As for Faora not taking down the bomber ASAP, she was overconfident and playing with them. She didn't think they could do anything to actually hurt the ship I'd imagine.
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Old June 17 2013, 01:51 AM   #283
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The way the scene played I didn't have a problem with Clark's response to his father.

I really liked both of Clark's parents in this version; they seemed more believable as people than in previous movies.
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Old June 17 2013, 02:03 AM   #284
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The tornado scene was the moment I fully connected with the film on an emotional level. Not only was it touching to see dad stand by his words (to paraphrase: "don't rush to the rescue and reveal your powers") it also, for me, cemented why Clark acted to save others. He was following in pa Kent's footsteps. From that moment in the film on, he was focused on learning to follow in pa El's footsteps - and to successfully reconcile the two.

It was a pivotal scene for the film. And, for me anyway, it worked.
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Old June 17 2013, 02:09 AM   #285
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

There were a number of heroes in the film. I really liked Christopher Meloni as Col. Hardy. Loved the scene where he emptied his guns on the Kryptonian villainess Faora (to no effect) and then pulled a knife on her. What guts!
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