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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 16 2013, 05:58 AM   #241
Lapis Exilis
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

daveyNY wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
I just love the wide range of the reviews.
I wonder if there is any kind of age relationship to them...

Younger fans as compared to older ones.

There definitely seems to be a Classic to New Age preference theme, running in them.
I doubt it. I was weaned on Silver Age Superman, 8 years old when Chris Reeve hit the screen. I thought MoS was fantastic. I think it's a polarizing movie - it plays with Superman in a pretty complex way (not saying it's a complex film particularly, just that what it did with the mythos was). That means a variety of things either click with a viewer or don't.
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Old June 16 2013, 06:15 AM   #242
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Overall I rated it a B. It was a bit too long and plodding in spots (I think they could have trimmed bout 20 minutes and it would be a better film.

Overall it was WAY better then 2006's "Superman Returns"; and I know it's a comic book film (and had some really well done sequences and bits here and there; but some of the plot contrivances did detract from the film.

Some thoughts:

- I agree with those folks who said they made Jonathan Kent a bit of an asshole. The scene between him and young Clark where they're talking about Clark saving the school bus, and Clark says:

Clark: "What should I have done? Let them die?"

Jonathan: "Yes, maybe."
(and yet in the same breath saying, "You're here for a reason that will change the world..")
^^^
Talk about sending mixed signal to an already confused upper teenager. IMO = Major asshole.

- And the Tornado scene where Jonathan Kent dies:
Given the character as portrayed in the film to that point, my problem with Jonathan waving Clark off and doing it himself (and getting killed) is the fact that it's NOT for a non-family member who might blow Clark's super powers to the world, it's for the family dog (and I don't object to try to save a beloved animal. What' stupid for me is that IF he had let Clark do it - and Clark 'appeared' to die (in front of a bunch of strangers in a chaotic situation); no harm no foul per se - Clark lives, the dog lives, and Jonathan lives and Clark's secret is safe.

Then we some of the ridiculous cross references (intended or not):

- We have "Dragon Riders of Krypton" (WTF - who cam up with the idea of Jar-El riding 4-winged dragon?

- "The Krypton/Matrix" (Hell, when they show the cloned Kryptonian baby embryos being grabbed by machines, IT look like the scene was an used one FROM the Matrix (Hell, with Laurence Fishbourne as Perry White - I'm surprised they didn't have an exchange between him and Lois asking "Where's Clark?"; and Perry replying, "He's off doing his Superman thing."

- Then we have Clark as 'the Greenhorn" on the latest episode of "Deadliest Catch".

- And sorry, with Kryptonians being shown a a VERY space-faring capable race (they explored the Galaxy for 100,000 years, etc.) Sorry, when your chief scientist (who was genetically engineered to be the best scientist he can be) tells you "Hey, mining the planet's core was a bad idea; and the end result is Krypton will implode..." (and BTW NO ONE disputes this conclusion) - they are incredulous about evacuating Krypton and moving to one or more of the habitable worlds in range they KNOW for a fact exist?
^^^
Sorry, for an advanced race that's supposed to be very intelligent, they are portrayed as quite stupid IMO.

- The 'Codex' (from which EVERY Kryptonian as been created for the last few centuries) is just a partial decaying Kryptonian skull (it's completely black in color) uspended and being constantly scanned by laser beam? And Jar-El molecularizes is and 'infuses' it into baby Kal-El? WFTF? (Oh, and BTW - if natural birth is frowned on/outlawed; and population is strictly controlled and EVERY Kryponian cloned is 'made' for a specific job function, why do husband/wife (and or marriage) relationships still exist? (IE it' pretty clear Jar-El and Lara Lor-Van are married as the character is described as "The biological mother of Superman and loyal wife to Jor-El".

- And once Kal-El surrenders to Zod, does Zod also want Lois Lane too? (To advance the plot she has to be there so AI Jar-El can tell her how to defeat Zod; and help Kl-El escape); but given what Zod's plan for Kal-El was, there was no logical reason to either take Lois (and keep her alive) in the first place.)

- Also, how was Superman (who while growing up on Earth was NEVER trained to fight and avoided it at all costs lest he kill someone) - manage to defeat in hand to hand a trained/genetically created specifically as a warrior, Kryptonian General who had fully adapted to Earth and his new powers?

There's more glaring inconsistencies, but I'm starting to cramp up from all this typing.

Again, overall I liked it more than "Superman Returns", and the 1978 "Superman" and 1980's "Superman II" <- which had been my favorite despite being campy as heck.

The combat CGI was amazing, and I liked Henry Cavill's performance in he role (had some really god scenes and lines that he carried well.)

I do wish they could just write a decent story; and not a contrived mess. (YMMV)
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Old June 16 2013, 06:27 AM   #243
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Phily B wrote: View Post
Another thing that annoyed me, when he dons the suit - it's not epic, it doesn't feel monumental or a great weight. It' just a suit. Same with the flying scene, when he "learns" to fly properly - it's not really joyous, or monumental or any of that, he is just flying. You have that generic Hans Zimmer drumbeat rattling in the background while you see a shaky cam of a blue blur, the closest it got to being cool was when he went through space. It just rushed it.

Compare and contrast with Iron Man when he flies the suit into the atmosphere the first time and around town. Hell, even in Star Trek when you see the Enterprise for the first time in the 2009 flick would be a comparison.
Agree. There is no joy in the movie. I daresay there is not one single scene I would describe as exhilarating.

There isn't one scene that matches the heroic grandeur of Superman saving the the plane in the middle of the baseball stadium, no jawdroppingingly obscene display of Superman's powers to match the bullet blast to the eye in SR. Frack me, if I'm remembering correctly, bullets knocked Supes off his feet in MoS.

There is nothing to match the sheer joy watching Clark discovering his powers as a child like in Superman '78, and SR.

In Superman '78 Superman's emotional reaction to Lois' death had a foundation that had been built which made it realistic and appropriate. The kiss between the two in MoS seemed like it must have been the prelude to a booty call to me based on the lack of foundation for anything more.

In Supes '78, his emotional plea to Miss Tesbacher to help him save people from Lex' nuke resonated as did Supe's heartfelt, "goodbye Lois" in SR. After the "goodbye" in SR, there is that goosepimply moment when he flies above the clouds to replenish his strength with the Sun's yellow rays before, perhaps, meeting death. There were no moments like this in MoS. In MoS, emotion was replaced by action.

Does Pa Kent going back to save his dog after suggesting to Clark that he maybe should have allowed a bus full of children to die mean he thinks more of dogs than he does kids? Maybe not, but from what I saw in the movie, I could at least make that argument.

The lack of an emotional center in this movie along with Supes' angst and physical vulnerability maybe (maybe) works for Batman, but he is a much different character than Supes -- to me. Chris Nolan, apparently, sees them as being pretty similar.
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Old June 16 2013, 06:31 AM   #244
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I found it odd when Jor-El said that they abandoned space exploration because of the need for population control and the overextension of Krypton's resources. For a species that had mastered interstellar travel and found habitable worlds, it seems like those worlds would be the answer to the problems of overpopulation and overextension of their home planet's resources....But I'm willing to let that sort of thing go because we're only getting a Cliff's Notes version of Kryptonian history...I'm sure our own planet's history would be baffling to an outsider if explained in 15 minutes of screen time.
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Old June 16 2013, 07:27 AM   #245
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The reviews and opinions are very wide spread on this, very strange.

To me, it was nothing more than Transformers with another skin.
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Old June 16 2013, 08:09 AM   #246
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Phily B wrote: View Post
The reviews and opinions are very wide spread on this, very strange.

To me, it was nothing more than Transformers with another skin.
That was what I thought, too, replace the Kryptonians with giant robots and people would be slating this as just another Transformers piece of crap.
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Old June 16 2013, 11:29 AM   #247
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

gblews wrote: View Post
One of the things I didn't want to see in Nolan's "relatable" Superrman was a tamping down of his invulnerability and sure enough, by having him fight villains who were just as powerful as he (actually, they seemed more powerful), Superman was made to look more like "Averageman". One of the things SR did correctly was put Superman in situations where his uncanny super powers looked incredible. In MoS we see Superman get his ass kicked by a woman, and then explain it away by saying it has to do with Supes' moral standards. This was not good.
For what it is worth Superman has always been a degree or two less powerful than the other Kryptonians he encounters. Not for the usual "the hero has to be" story reasons but because Superman is gimped by being raised by humans and doesn't use any more power than he absolutely has to. Other Kryptonians use their full power. Even in many interpretations Supergirl is more powerful than Superman because she doesn't give a shit about Earth and Humans because she wasn't raised as one. So she's balls to the wall all the time. Superman uses as much power as he needs and no more.

That was what I thought, too, replace the Kryptonians with giant robots and people would be slating this as just another Transformers piece of crap.
This argument was made last year with The Avengers but, again, there's a big difference between what Transformers did, what Avengers did and what Man of Steel has done. In The Avengers the movie is built up to know what the stakes are you know who the characters are and can identify them. Superman does that less as well but it's still there. Transformers? More time is spent with comic relief and human characters so by the time the robots start fighting it's pointless. We don't know who they are or care about them so it's just noise, not to mention a jumbled mess since we can't identify them from one another besides "Optimus is sorta red and blue."

But I'll concede that the action scenes in MoS did drag a bit and were a bit nonsensical as opposed to how they were in Avengers. Not "Transformers" bad, but along that road.

As opposed to the abandoning space exploration, I think they should've stuck with the idea that Kryptonians simply didn't explore space. Either they couldn't break atmo due to Krypton's higher gravity or they didn't leave the planet because they knew what different solar radiation could do to them on other worlds. Jor-El designed the terraforming device but the idea was abandoned (and Zod eventually gets a hold of it when he escapes the Phantom Zone), he launches Kal-El in defiance of the law, the launch only working to Krypton's reduced density making the gravitational pull less strong. Which may be weak/bad science but at least better than "We once were on planets but not so much anymore. Who knows what happened out there."
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Old June 16 2013, 12:01 PM   #248
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

For me the story was more superficial in Man of Steam than in Avengers and that lead to the feeling that it could easily have been a Transformers film.
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Old June 16 2013, 12:09 PM   #249
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Bob The Skutter wrote: View Post
For me the story was more superficial in Man of Steam than in Avengers and that lead to the feeling that it could easily have been a Transformers film.
Did at some point in the film something transform from a car to a robot, or why are people making that comparison all the time?
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Old June 16 2013, 12:17 PM   #250
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

D+

Saw it tonight. A more detailed analysis will follow later, if one can be composed to properly describe the utter mess this film is. Thumbs down.
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Old June 16 2013, 12:20 PM   #251
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Bob The Skutter wrote: View Post
For me the story was more superficial in Man of Steam than in Avengers and that lead to the feeling that it could easily have been a Transformers film.
Did at some point in the film something transform from a car to a robot, or why are people making that comparison all the time?
Because at this point in time Transformers is shorthand for action focused CGI spectacular that's low on substance.
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Old June 16 2013, 01:04 PM   #252
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I do think a lot of the product placement (IHOP, 7-Eleven, Sears) was over the top.
On that note, this is probably the only blockbuster movie (possibly even the only movie period) where I've seen product placement for Alexander Keith's. Keith's is a popular Canadian beer which can be seen in the bar Clark's working at near the beginning.
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Old June 16 2013, 01:47 PM   #253
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The difference between this and Transformers is that at least MoS gives you some clues as to where you are and what's going on. The characters are easily identifiable and the battles make sense geographically. I found myself immersed in MoS's battle scenes whereas Transformers is a constant struggle to differentiate between characters and location.

I agree that MoS is a little light on plot but to be honest, I think that's what's needed from a Superman film at the moment. We had a plot and story heavy movie and it didn't work out too well. Now all the pieces are in place for the next one to lighten up and have fun a little and maybe take a few more risks storywise.

It's the mark of a good movie when I want to see the next one RIGHT NOW.
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Old June 16 2013, 01:50 PM   #254
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Ok, so I stayed up all night and tried to get my thoughts in order. It's probably still a bit of a jumble, but fuck it.

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Old June 16 2013, 02:34 PM   #255
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

daveyNY wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
I just love the wide range of the reviews.
I wonder if there is any kind of age relationship to them...

Younger fans as compared to older ones.

There definitely seems to be a Classic to New Age preference theme, running in them.
Forty-two here and I thought it was a great movie.
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