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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 4 2014, 07:52 AM   #1576
TemporalFlux
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ I found that I also liked it more on a second pass; I think the ending had retroactively tainted the entire movie for me on the first pass at theaters.

I still don't like the ending, though; it was an unnecessary ending in my opinion and did not advance the characters in a direction worth exploring in a mainstream film. It only serves to dillute and diminish the Superman character.

Superman is about hope and setting a standard for humanity to follow; it even says it in this movie. But this Superman did no better than the rest of us would. Superman is supposed to be better.
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Old January 4 2014, 04:07 PM   #1577
Warped9
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

A lot of the disillusionment I'm reading here strikes me as stemming from expectation. Many (if not all) have a set image or expectation of who/what Superman/Clark is (as well as the other characters) and they're upset with any deviation.

While I can't say this is absolutely the Superman film I would have liked to see I'm not pissed about it. Within context of the what they set out to do I find more right with it than wrong, even if a lot of the right isn't what I might have preferred.

One thing that made sense to me (from what we saw of it) was making Lois smart enough to figure out who Clark was from the beginning. This got around the hoary old idea that has long lost any credibility whatsoever that him simply donning glasses (and maybe combing his hair a bit differntly) could fool her into beleiving Clark and Superman were two separate individuals. They got that out of the way.

They picked up on a lot of what was done in Smallville. Basically Clark was/is trying to find himself and isn't the boyscout from day one. Actually Smallville's Clark was more the boyscout than the MOS version. And I get a lot of folks are having a problem with that. The MOS version of the character here seems (to me) more in line with the character's early years in the comics as opposed to the idealized squeaky clean Christopher Reeve version.

There are things I liked in the '78 film, but it was a sanitized version of the character and his world. It was unquestionable hugely successful and popular, but it was an interpretation and one not everyone bought into. After Supes' first appearance in Metropolis the film veers into inescapable camp and mostly slides from there (in my opinion).

MOS (whether one likes it or not) stays pretty consistent throughout in terms of overall tone. It is a somewhat darker and edgier take on Superman and his universe. It is more in line with the Nolan Dark Knight trilogy even if not intended as the same continuity. Some are really upset that this Superman doesn't do more to save people, but again how the character is established precludes that. This Superman is facing a huge unforseen challenge before he's actually decided to be Superman and establish himself. It all comes to a head before he's even really figured everything out for himself. What we saw in MOS largely makes sense within context of the film made and its interpretation of the characters and their world.

One can decry seeing the origin story all over again, but it pretty much is necessary to establish that this interpretation of Superman is definitely distinct from previous film versions. If they had simply done Superman as already established I can imagine the outcry would have been even louder.

Comparing the '78 film and MOS I find there are things I like in both and things I don't like in both. In the '78 film I've grown to dislike the overt camp and over sanitization of the character and his world. In MOS I like the overall consistency of tone better, but I find some of the creative choices questionable.

I'm thinking what I need to do is watch the two films back-to-back for the sake of a more first-hand comparison.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:08 PM   #1578
Anwar
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

To be honest, I'm glad they dropped the whole Lois-Superman-Clark triangle thing.

Really, after a while the whole thing just made Lois look like a complete moron, and it made Clark this douchebag who enjoyed playing a bizarre mind game with the woman he supposedly was in love with.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:15 PM   #1579
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

That, and it's just not interesting. The whole "Oh no, they might learn my secret identity!" thing? It's boring.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:53 PM   #1580
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The secret identity thing only works with a character like Batman or Spider-Man or Iron Man or anyone who's face is at least partially covered. If the face is exposed it falls apart.

Well...the Hulk could be an exception to that because his face, as well as his whole body, morphs sufficiently to alter his features so that most probably won't make the connection. That plus him growing in size and physique.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:06 PM   #1581
Mr Light
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

<<A lot of the disillusionment I'm reading here strikes me as stemming from expectation. Many (if not all) have a set image or expectation of who/what Superman/Clark is (as well as the other characters) and they're upset with any deviation.>>

Which is why I find it so befuddling that so many people object to him killing Zod, when that's what he does in the comics.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:32 PM   #1582
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

See, killing Zod didn't really bother me. And I doubt it would weigh on the minds of any humans either given what Zod set about doing. It quickly became apparent that Earth was going to get it whether Kalel was surrendered or not.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:44 PM   #1583
Gaith
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Warped9 wrote: View Post
One thing that made sense to me (from what we saw of it) was making Lois smart enough to figure out who Clark was from the beginning. This got around the hoary old idea that has long lost any credibility whatsoever that him simply donning glasses (and maybe combing his hair a bit differently) could fool her into beleiving Clark and Superman were two separate individuals. They got that out of the way.
But everyone else at the Planet apparently will be fooled?
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Old January 4 2014, 06:48 PM   #1584
Warped9
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Gaith wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
One thing that made sense to me (from what we saw of it) was making Lois smart enough to figure out who Clark was from the beginning. This got around the hoary old idea that has long lost any credibility whatsoever that him simply donning glasses (and maybe combing his hair a bit differently) could fool her into beleiving Clark and Superman were two separate individuals. They got that out of the way.
But everyone else at the Planet apparently will be fooled?
No, that doesn't really make much sense either, but at least we getting at least something more believable out of this.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:57 PM   #1585
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I can't wait to see how this secret identity thing plays out. Maybe they'll continue to play fast and loose with it rather than fully embracing the traditional conceit. Part traditional Superman, part Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:35 PM   #1586
Gaith
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
One thing that made sense to me (from what we saw of it) was making Lois smart enough to figure out who Clark was from the beginning. This got around the hoary old idea that has long lost any credibility whatsoever that him simply donning glasses (and maybe combing his hair a bit differently) could fool her into beleiving Clark and Superman were two separate individuals. They got that out of the way.
But everyone else at the Planet apparently will be fooled?
No, that doesn't really make much sense either, but at least we getting at least something more believable out of this.
What, Lois recognizes the most famous person on the planet, but no one else at the Planet and in everyday Metropolis life does? I fail to see how that's in any way more believable.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:41 PM   #1587
DWF
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Gaith wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
But everyone else at the Planet apparently will be fooled?
No, that doesn't really make much sense either, but at least we getting at least something more believable out of this.
What, Lois recognizes the most famous person on the planet, but no one else at the Planet and in everyday Metropolis life does? I fail to see how that's in any way more believable.
Well few people in Mtropolis has seen him close up, but I'm sure that Pete Ross recognize him during the battle in Smallville. Still with millions of people in Metropolis it'd be hard to spot a man who doesn't stick out.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:44 PM   #1588
OdoWanKenobi
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The reason that Clark's disguise is so effective has been explained time and time again in the comics. First, it's not just glasses and a hairdo change. He wears clothes that are too big, changes his posture, and raises his voice an octave. Plus, there's the biggest thing: People don't even think that Superman has a secret identity. He has the powers of (to them) a god, and he doesn't wear a mask. To most people, he's just Superman. Someone sees Clark Kent, and they don't see Superman with glasses, because they're just not looking.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:46 PM   #1589
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ There's no need to condescend. Fanwank comic explanations are still fanwank contrivances, and prior comics are not synonymous with Snyder's movies.

@DWF: Tell that to any celebrity - including Cavill himself - who walks down the street in NYC and is recognized multiple times per hour, if not block, but only if you don't mind being laughed at. This is gonna fool very, very few people in any reality resembling our own.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:52 PM   #1590
DWF
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Gaith wrote: View Post
^ Tell that to any celebrity who walks down the street in NYC and is recognized multiple times per hour, if not block, but only if you don't mind being laughed at. This is gonna fool very, very few people in any reality resembling our own.
Superman was active for about one day and flying at superspeeds most of the time, if there were any pcitures taken of him they'd be blurry. The more he's seen publically the harder it might be for him.
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