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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 11 2013, 12:33 AM   #16
Mojochi
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Timo wrote: View Post
I kind of do feel the same way about Remmick. He was just doing his job, carrying out his ugly, uncompromising orders. Not every investigator who works at Internals Affairs is a dick, but they all get to wear a dick's uniform
The cute and somewhat Roddenberrian thing about "Coming of Age" is that when Remmick drops the Internal Affairs act and says that he'd consider it a privilege to serve on the Enterprise, it very much looks as if our heroes would actually welcome him there. Sure, Picard at first gives the stereotypical icy silence combined with The Look (TM), but he gets over it, and in the very next sentence says he's not holding the events against Remmick.

Timo Saloniemi
Yup, & I think that was kind of the point, that they're evolved enough to get it, & not hold it against him, & I also appreciate Remmick's rather meek way of stating it, as if he knew his current role might not present him well in that regard
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Old June 11 2013, 01:37 AM   #17
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Timo wrote: View Post
The cute and somewhat Roddenberrian thing about "Coming of Age" is that when Remmick drops the Internal Affairs act and says that he'd consider it a privilege to serve on the Enterprise, it very much looks as if our heroes would actually welcome him there. Sure, Picard at first gives the stereotypical icy silence combined with The Look (TM), but he gets over it, and in the very next sentence says he's not holding the events against Remmick.
I'm sure Picard also appreciated that Remmick performed his duties well. Internal Affairs is antagonistic by nature, and if Remmick made people uncomfortable by conducting his investigation, he was doing his job exactly as he was supposed to, something that wouldn't be lost on Picard.

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Old June 11 2013, 01:53 AM   #18
Hober Mallow
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Did I feel bad for Remmick? No, I laughed my ass off when his head exploded.

Does that make me a bad person?
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Old June 11 2013, 02:29 AM   #19
Sran
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Did I feel bad for Remmick? No, I laughed my ass off when his head exploded.

Does that make me a bad person?
No. The way that scene was handled is somewhat humorous. Remmick didn't just die. His skin was burned away by the phaser blasts to show his skeleton before his head exploded, leaving behind a headless corpse with a huge hole in his chest.

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Old June 11 2013, 03:25 AM   #20
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

To be fair to Roddenberry, I think the real magic of Star Trek came when the writers took his utopia and applied their own opinion of human reality to it.

Remmick was ordered to find something wrong on the Enterprise. The technique he applied to following those orders were all him. He was a 'Scott the Dick', a 'Jeremy Jamm', a 'Shooter McGraw'. A beaurocrat who is arbitrarily hostile for no reason. Every show's got 'em.
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Old June 11 2013, 03:27 AM   #21
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
To be fair to Roddenberry, I think the real magic of Star Trek came when the writers took his utopia and applied their own opinion of human reality to it.
Seconded.

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Old June 11 2013, 04:08 AM   #22
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Even if Roddenberry were still alive today, it wouldn't have mattered. He'd been effectively blackballed since the third season of TNG.
In a way, Gene is lucky that Paramount put up with him much past the first season. Gene had his lawyer working alongside him on the series during the first season, helping to make creative decisions. This lawyer helped drive a wedge between Gene and others within the creative staff (like David Gerrold) as well. Paramount had to intervene and tell Gene that his lawyer was no longer welcome on the Paramount lot.

I think Paramount tolerated Roddenberry, at best. As soon as they found a decent writer to head the writers room (Piller), and took real creative control over Gene, things changed rapidly for the better. This is much the same with the film series, where Gene had input but noone was obligated to follow his instructions
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Old June 11 2013, 02:12 PM   #23
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Bastard deserved being shot in the face. Oh wait. He got it.
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Old June 11 2013, 03:46 PM   #24
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

[QUOTE=Dukhat;8226523]
Blackhorse47 wrote: View Post
He's not supposed to be compromised the first time, because that story had nothing to do with the insecty things. It was supposed to be about a serious rebellion in Starfleet, without alien interference. The bug angle came later when Roddenberry didn't like the idea of renegade Starfleet officers. Which is too bad, because that would have been a much better story.
I wasn't aware of that change of focus, but the thing is, the viewer is invited to assume the two stories are linked, or at the very least there's no explanation provided to assume they aren't linked. So it appears that the starfleet rebellion is ultimately being controlled by aliens, which in itself is a pretty standard Trek plot twist. With that in mind, how and when and why Remmick got taken over is hard to explain.

Oh, and I guess on a point of order Remmick probably didn't get killed in the second episode. He was just a shell that looked like Remmick and the real Remmick must have been absorbed, or whatever, some time before. If there was any of Remmick left, Picard's actions are questionable, and they're pretty questionable even if there wasn't.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:32 PM   #25
Hober Mallow
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Jonesy wrote: View Post
In a way, Gene is lucky that Paramount put up with him much past the first season. Gene had his lawyer working alongside him on the series during the first season, helping to make creative decisions.
Makes you wonder who put that Shakespeare line about killing all the lawyers in "Farpoint."
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Old June 11 2013, 08:58 PM   #26
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Shakespeare cribbed it from the original Klingon text anyway.
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Old June 12 2013, 10:43 PM   #27
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

I just thought he didn't seem anything but sincere in wishing he was posted to the Enterprise which suggests to me that he put on a show for his job.
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Old June 13 2013, 06:23 AM   #28
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

He was totally sincere when he asked to join the Enterprise.

And if his wish had been granted and he had joined the Enterprise he would have realized every one of his orders by bullying people and treating everybody unconditionally like a traitor.
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Old June 13 2013, 08:12 AM   #29
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

He did his job well, part of that job was being a bastard. Anyone can do the jobs where you have to be nice to people. It takes dedication to do what he did. As far as I'm concerned he would have made a fine addition to the Enterprise (and possibly an interesting more often reoccurring character on the show).
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Old June 16 2013, 02:13 AM   #30
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Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?

Sran wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
The cute and somewhat Roddenberrian thing about "Coming of Age" is that when Remmick drops the Internal Affairs act and says that he'd consider it a privilege to serve on the Enterprise, it very much looks as if our heroes would actually welcome him there. Sure, Picard at first gives the stereotypical icy silence combined with The Look (TM), but he gets over it, and in the very next sentence says he's not holding the events against Remmick.
I'm sure Picard also appreciated that Remmick performed his duties well. Internal Affairs is antagonistic by nature, and if Remmick made people uncomfortable by conducting his investigation, he was doing his job exactly as he was supposed to, something that wouldn't be lost on Picard.
Exactly. Remmick was doing his duty, and nobody can fault him for that. If he spoke like a jackass to the crew, it was because he was supposed to. IA-type people always are like that, because they have to be.

As for Remmick's death in "Conspiracy": He was already dead. Remmick died as soon as he was taken over by the mother creature. What died in the episode was not Remmick.
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