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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old June 10 2013, 02:43 AM   #16
MANT!
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

But the shadow..the shadow...
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Old June 10 2013, 05:17 AM   #17
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

scotpens wrote: View Post
With the cameras and lenses of the 1960s, creating the convincing illusion of a thousand-foot-long spacecraft required a fairly large miniature. The 11-foot Enterprise model weighed 225 pounds -- not exactly easy to swing about on a wire rig. It was simply more practical to shoot the (mostly) stationary miniature against a blue screen while the camera tracked, panned and tilted. It also meant that a library of stock Enterprise shots could be composited against different backgrounds, which probably saved money in the long run.

I do wonder, though, how live-action model shots of the shuttlecraft might have looked if Trek TOS had engaged the talents of top miniature FX men like the Lydecker brothers or Derek Meddings.

I wonder how the 33-inch Enterprise model might have looked on wires, in front of paintings. For brief shots, as an addition to the 11-footer and not a full-time replacement, it might have been fine. Just don't show the underside of the saucer.

Not only was the 11-footer too big to put in front of paintings, they say it was too big to photograph in a versatile way, period. Or the fx studio space they had was too small. If the 11-footer were in a larger studio, they could have put it in front of a black curtain with lit pin-holes for stars. You could put a physical planet model in the shot. It would either look "wonderfully organic" or cheesy beyond all measure. Don't know which.

Derek Meddings was amazing. His diorama sets often fooled me completely.

Three cool pics from Superman II:

Superman II windy street:
http://tinyurl.com/m6xfe43

Superman II farmhouse:
http://tinyurl.com/llv7uoq

http://tinyurl.com/lvbc5qm

And UFO:



The scene above looks brighter and sharper than the CGI of today. Boy does it look good.

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Old June 10 2013, 05:42 AM   #18
Maurice
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

MANT! wrote: View Post
But the shadow..the shadow...
That, and the saucer is too small for the landing gear, which, if swung up, would be farther across than the saucer is wide.
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Old June 10 2013, 06:16 AM   #19
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

Maurice wrote: View Post
That, and the saucer is too small for the landing gear, which, if swung up, would be farther across than the saucer is wide.

I never saw the show, but I would think those landing gear are supposed to swing inward.
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Old June 10 2013, 08:34 AM   #20
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
That, and the saucer is too small for the landing gear, which, if swung up, would be farther across than the saucer is wide.
I never saw the show, but I would think those landing gear are supposed to swing inward.
Nope.

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Old June 10 2013, 05:41 PM   #21
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

I think for very brief shots they could have gone the LIS route and stuck a model in front of a painting and managed to get away with it. As a child I always thought of Space 1999 and UFO as special effects leaders, but they came a full five years and more after TOS. Another point to ponder, Space 1999 sometimes tried to cheat. More than a few times they'd land an eagle model with the picture of another eagle angled or shrouded amongst rock or trees in the background. In a few instances they did a poor job, with an obvious picture propped on a launch pad. But if the shot is brief enough and done as well as possible, I'm sure they could have used similar effects strategies for TOS and pulled it off.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:45 PM   #22
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

UFO was made the year Star Trek ended, not 5 years later.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:51 PM   #23
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

Maurice wrote: View Post
UFO was made the year Star Trek ended, not 5 years later.
You are right. My wording could have been better.
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Old June 10 2013, 06:32 PM   #24
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

beamMe wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
Does anyone know if any other SF shows in the 60s even attempted to do ship shots the way TOS did? Maybe compositing was done here and there on things like Forbidden Planet or This Island Earth, but on TV? The wire technique that began with Flash Gordon was still the standard approach.
Why is that starship underwater?

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Old June 10 2013, 07:53 PM   #25
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

In space seed the two miniatures were filmed together as Enterprise was towing the Botany Bay.

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Old June 10 2013, 08:26 PM   #26
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

AtoZ wrote: View Post
I think for very brief shots they could have gone the LIS route and stuck a model in front of a painting and managed to get away with it.
In fact, Trek TOS did that at least once -- in "The Trouble With Tribbles." The Enterprise seen through the window of Mr. Lurry's office on Space Station K-7 is an AMT model suspended on wires in front of a painted starfield.

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Old June 12 2013, 01:04 AM   #27
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

I thought one of the vfx houses did shoot the close shots of the E pivoting (like the ones seen on the 'next episode' intro) against a practical starfield. I mean, they're in really close and there's not a matte line I can see in standard def.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:10 AM   #28
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post


The scene above looks brighter and sharper than the CGI of today. Boy does it look good.
That's usually an artistic difference, rather than a technological one. Today's rendering engines are extremely good, but that's no guarantee the artist will use it in a photo-realistic manner. In fact, while CGI rendering engines have gotten better, moviemakers have trended towards a more stylized look even with live action—such as the dreaded "teal & orange" grading. Ironically, it is the CGI stuff that has realistic light and color, while live action is now filtered to death.

(Check out any of Andrew Price's tutorials.)
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Old June 12 2013, 05:06 AM   #29
Maurice
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

trevanian wrote: View Post
I thought one of the vfx houses did shoot the close shots of the E pivoting (like the ones seen on the 'next episode' intro) against a practical starfield. I mean, they're in really close and there's not a matte line I can see in standard def.
Looks pretty matted to me in HD.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...yiushd1399.jpg
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Old June 12 2013, 05:28 AM   #30
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Re: Vintage FX: Star Trek vs Lost in Space

Metryq wrote: View Post
That's usually an artistic difference, rather than a technological one. Today's rendering engines are extremely good, but that's no guarantee the artist will use it in a photo-realistic manner. In fact, while CGI rendering engines have gotten better, moviemakers have trended towards a more stylized look even with live action—such as the dreaded "teal & orange" grading. Ironically, it is the CGI stuff that has realistic light and color, while live action is now filtered to death.

(Check out any of Andrew Price's tutorials.)

I believe that. I often find myself yearning for some natural brightness and, heaven forbid, some primary colors in today's sci-fi movies.
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