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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 24 2013, 08:15 PM   #121
Melakon
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
. . .It wouldn't even be the first series to do the 'it's all in the head of a not-quite-sane person' - Buffy the vampire slayer was there first.
I never watched the Buffy series, but I did see the original film when it was in theaters. But how could Buffy the Series predate this concept over DS9, when DS9 ended before Buffy did?
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Old August 24 2013, 08:49 PM   #122
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
. . .It wouldn't even be the first series to do the 'it's all in the head of a not-quite-sane person' - Buffy the vampire slayer was there first.
I never watched the Buffy series, but I did see the original film when it was in theaters. But how could Buffy the Series predate this concept over DS9, when DS9 ended before Buffy did?
Buffy the vampire slayer had an episode in which all that fantasy world was established as being the hallucination of a Buffy committed to the mental asylum - the ending of the episode establishing this unambiguously.

I didn't check whether the DS9 episode or the Buffy one aired first. I gave Buffy precedence because the series established its non-reality unambiguously, while DS9 didn't.
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Old August 24 2013, 08:53 PM   #123
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

That was "Normal Again", a Buffy sixth season episode made four years after "Far Beyond the Stars".
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Old August 24 2013, 09:20 PM   #124
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

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For someone outside USA's historical injustices and current guilt trips over them, 'Far beyond the stars' doesn't have even half the punch it is obviously intended to have.
Where are you that lacks even the slightest racial or social injustice, past or present?
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Old August 24 2013, 09:32 PM   #125
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
I didn't check whether the DS9 episode or the Buffy one aired first. I gave Buffy precedence because the series established its non-reality unambiguously, while DS9 didn't.
I did check the dates before posting, and it took less than 2 minutes.
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Old August 24 2013, 09:44 PM   #126
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
It wouldn't even be the first series to do the 'it's all in the head of a not-quite-sane person' - Buffy the vampire slayer was there first.
There was an episode of the British series UFO from the early 1970's that got there before DS9 or Buffy.

Ed Striker found himself on a TV show about a fictional alien defense organization.

And that likely wasn't the first.

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Old August 24 2013, 09:55 PM   #127
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
It wouldn't even be the first series to do the 'it's all in the head of a not-quite-sane person' - Buffy the vampire slayer was there first.
There was an episode of the British series UFO from the early 1970's that got there before DS9 or Buffy.

Ed Striker found himself on a TV show about a fictional alien defense organization.

And that likely wasn't the first.

I believe that characters stepping in and out of pictures and films was a paradign established by Méliès.
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Old August 24 2013, 09:58 PM   #128
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
For someone outside USA's historical injustices and current guilt trips over them, 'Far beyond the stars' doesn't have even half the punch it is obviously intended to have.
Where are you that lacks even the slightest racial or social injustice, past or present?
Where I am lacked - and lacks - the particular brand of racial/social injustice (black discrimination) this episode harps on about.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
I didn't check whether the DS9 episode or the Buffy one aired first. I gave Buffy precedence because the series established its non-reality unambiguously, while DS9 didn't.
I did check the dates before posting, and it took less than 2 minutes.
How nice for you.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
It wouldn't even be the first series to do the 'it's all in the head of a not-quite-sane person' - Buffy the vampire slayer was there first.
There was an episode of the British series UFO from the early 1970's that got there before DS9 or Buffy.

Ed Striker found himself on a TV show about a fictional alien defense organization.

And that likely wasn't the first.

Interesting information about cultural history relating to the reality/dream dichotomy, T'Girl. Even the ancient chinese knew about it, though, so - definitely not the first.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:06 PM   #129
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
For someone outside USA's historical injustices and current guilt trips over them, 'Far beyond the stars' doesn't have even half the punch it is obviously intended to have.
Where are you that lacks even the slightest racial or social injustice, past or present?
Considering Americans are capable, more or less, of relating to things like the Holocaust, which took place on a different continent, I don't know why you can't do the same.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:10 PM   #130
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

I can relate to it, Bad Thoughts - but relating to something and being in the centre of it are not the same thing.
Hence: For someone outside USA's historical injustices and current guilt trips over them, 'Far beyond the stars' doesn't have even half the punch it is obviously intended to have.

Really, that's not rocket science, Bad Thoughts.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:19 PM   #131
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
How nice for you.
Yeah, it really is. It's also too bad you couldn't afford to put in the same amount of effort before making the claim that Buffy was there first. But then you wouldn't have had the opportunity to use a veiled insult as a snappy comeback.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:27 PM   #132
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
I can relate to it, Bad Thoughts - but relating to something and being in the centre of it are not the same thing.
Hence: For someone outside USA's historical injustices and current guilt trips over them, 'Far beyond the stars' doesn't have even half the punch it is obviously intended to have.

Really, that's not rocket science, Bad Thoughts.
There are elements of the episode that are specific to the African-American experience.

The following are NOT among them:
  • Being denied professional advancement for belonging to an "inferior" social or racial group.
  • Being forced to hide one's identity because of membership to a social or racial group.
  • Having no positive images of one's social or racial group available to them because they would not be broadly accepted.
  • Being distrusted by law enforcement because of membership to a racial or social group.

All the most poignant sections of the episode could have been recast in terms of another group that experience discrimination and repression. This point was even made in the episode by the fact that neither Benny nor Kay Eaton were allowed to show up for the staff photo.

So I don't buy that cultural differences might explain why you don't feel the episode had the impact it would for an American. Maybe Jazz, Baseball or Harlem nightlife don't grab you. Those, however, were not the elements from which the emotional foundations of the episode were made.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:30 PM   #133
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
How nice for you.
Yeah, it really is. It's also too bad you couldn't afford to put in the same amount of effort before making the claim that Buffy was there first. But then you wouldn't have had the opportunity to use a veiled insult as a snappy comeback.
An insult? Is that what you think my reply was?
Melakon, unlike you, I don't really care about this whole 'which was first with unambiguous non-reality' argument enough to bother coming up with insults - veiled or otherwise.

PS:
For your peace of mind: when I wrote the initial post, Buffy was the first series I thought of off the top of my head which unambiguously established its own non-reality (unlike the ambiguity from DS9).
Of course, all of these addendums should be implicit since quite a few posts ago.
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Last edited by Edit_XYZ; August 24 2013 at 10:57 PM.
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Old August 24 2013, 10:40 PM   #134
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

It's not that I took it personally (the phrase you used is that old), it's that you brought up the Buffy issue in the first place without verifying the claim. Then you treat it as "so what".
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Old August 24 2013, 10:45 PM   #135
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Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Bad thoughts, you seem heavily emotionally invested in 'Far beyond the stars'.
Since I repeatedly explained to you my reaction the episode and seeing how you can't seem able to 'buy' that people may not be as involved with black discrimination as the people affected by it (or their descendants) - preferring instead to list discriminations bleached from the specific flavour of the episode (a flavour heavily emphasized) and affirming it's the same thing -, continuing this discussion serves little purpose.
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