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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old June 13 2013, 03:08 AM   #16
stj
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

The basic story of the series was Voyager is trying to go home. As Aristotle said of The Odyssey, everything else is incident. Once they got home, that was the climax. Anything else would have been denouement, anticlimactic. The party covered that.

The ending was fine.
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Old June 13 2013, 03:33 AM   #17
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

Is "fine" really good enough?
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Old June 13 2013, 03:55 AM   #18
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

stj wrote: View Post
The basic story of the series was Voyager is trying to go home. As Aristotle said of The Odyssey, everything else is incident. Once they got home, that was the climax. Anything else would have been denouement, anticlimactic. The party covered that.
Actually Odysseus still had to beat the douchebags in his house after getting back. The story didn't just end the moment the hero saw his home. Homer wasn't that lazy a writer.
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Old June 13 2013, 04:15 AM   #19
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

He invented the shishkebab with a really long spear and all the doushe nozzels who were trying to get up inside his missus.

Beating "delete the wife" to the punch by 27 hundred years.
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Old June 13 2013, 01:14 PM   #20
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

Dream wrote: View Post
Actually Odysseus still had to beat the douchebags in his house after getting back. The story didn't just end the moment the hero saw his home. Homer wasn't that lazy a writer.
The second thing that comes to mind is that if you try to film two men slaughtering a whole crowd, you'll quickly find who did some lazy writing. Even Homer nods.

The first thing that came to mind of course was how anyone could expect the Federation to require its returned citizens to kill their way back into their kingdoms. Janeway has to kill Mark for her dog or the new missus for Mark, or maybe both (Or kill the dog too?); Chakotay and Torres have to assault the Cardassian Union singlehanded (and win); Seven of Nine makes a terrifying run for freedom from the vivisectionists who want to study her Borg implants; Paris has a lethal confrontation with his psychotic child abuser father; Tuvok has an amok time with his wife's boyfriend; The Doctor has to slaughter all the mining executives who are trying to add him to their workforce; Kim has to kill a saxophone player to get his seat in the Starfleet orchestra.

No thanks. The party showed us the aftermath of their return in such fashion there was no anticlimactic denouement.
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Old June 13 2013, 08:35 PM   #21
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

This has probably been posted already, but when I read this thread title, I thought of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5-KAjeuVDs

^^ A pretty good re-edit of the series finale, though the added music can get a bit annoying by the 5th time you've heard it.
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Old June 13 2013, 08:44 PM   #22
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

stj wrote: View Post
Seven of Nine makes a terrifying run for freedom from the vivisectionists who want to study her Borg implants
But what about Axum?!?
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Old June 14 2013, 12:53 AM   #23
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

Watching "Unimatrix Zero" again, I remembered how disappointed I was in Admiral Janeway (old Riker & Troi in a different skin) stealing the show from the cast and the ship being put in God mode. There was the Borg Resistance all ready to be used. They could have easily appeared. And the door was open to bringing in many potential allies in taking down the Transwarp Hub. It's in the whole quadrant's interest to take down that hub. Thanks to Borg transwarp, we could've seen Species 8472 (Axum was going to talk to them), some Hirogen, the Hierarchy, Annari, etc, perhaps even Krenim, like Voyager's good will coming back to reward them (all the allies gathered along the journey or ship they might think was able to lead a battle against the Borg). What we got was a precursor to "These are the Voyages..." and a lame effort to copy "All Good Things..." in part. Time travel wasn't necessary.
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Old June 14 2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

Gaith wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
Seven of Nine makes a terrifying run for freedom from the vivisectionists who want to study her Borg implants
But what about Axum?!?
You mean the guy who scares Seven by trying to touch her the first time she goes back to Unimatrix Zero? Beyond being creepy, he's bland and utterly forgettable.
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Old June 14 2013, 01:38 PM   #25
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

DeepSpaceWine wrote: View Post
Watching "Unimatrix Zero" again, I remembered how disappointed I was in Admiral Janeway (old Riker & Troi in a different skin) stealing the show from the cast and the ship being put in God mode. There was the Borg Resistance all ready to be used. They could have easily appeared. And the door was open to bringing in many potential allies in taking down the Transwarp Hub. It's in the whole quadrant's interest to take down that hub. Thanks to Borg transwarp, we could've seen Species 8472 (Axum was going to talk to them), some Hirogen, the Hierarchy, Annari, etc, perhaps even Krenim, like Voyager's good will coming back to reward them (all the allies gathered along the journey or ship they might think was able to lead a battle against the Borg). What we got was a precursor to "These are the Voyages..." and a lame effort to copy "All Good Things..." in part. Time travel wasn't necessary.
Actually an imaginative female fic writer kind of wrote the ending over that way. Only with new friends they had made. It's very J/C with some "shall we say adult scenes" but I kind of liked her take, without resulting in destroying the transwarp hub.
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Old June 14 2013, 01:44 PM   #26
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

davidant32 wrote: View Post
This has probably been posted already, but when I read this thread title, I thought of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5-KAjeuVDs

^^ A pretty good re-edit of the series finale, though the added music can get a bit annoying by the 5th time you've heard it.
Well, in many ways this is a very nice version, despite the music video added at the end. I kind of prefer J/C to J/7. I'm not bowled over because I still don't hate C/7. One of Seven's personalities, the victimized, weepy sow, matches up perfectly with Chakotay's macho pig version from Extreme Risk and Human Error.

It is of course still true that J/7 is canon. Only subtext, but still canon. And it is even more true that this version's fix, K/7, just is not canon. Another of Seven's personalities, Ms Borg Pride, does match up perfectly with Kim's dutiful never-say-die supersoldier. That's why TPTB scotched it as quickly as possible with Kim passing on public sex and Seven clouting him in the head. Also, despite the J/7 subtext, textually Janeway is mother (figure) to both Seven and Kim. This makes them figuratively brother and sister. TPTB passed on sibling rivalry (they only give lines or shots to Wang when they really need to carry a story.) But, this still makes K/7 incestuous.

Do you really want to go there?

Wait, maybe that would be the dark and gritty everyone wants?
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Old June 14 2013, 01:55 PM   #27
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

stj wrote: View Post
One of Seven's personalities, the victimized, weepy sow,

It is of course still true that J/7 is canon. Only subtext, but still canon.
What a rollercoaster.
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Old June 14 2013, 02:05 PM   #28
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

Subtext is not canon.

Subtext is the actors fucking about with quirks, sighs, farts and facial expressions.

Love and constipation usually seem identical to even the most trained set of analytical eyes.
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Old June 14 2013, 02:08 PM   #29
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

I would have ended it with them further away and probably all about to die. A really bleak cliffhanger ending.
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Old June 14 2013, 04:13 PM   #30
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Re: Voyagers ending, redone.

I thought it was quite refreshing they way they turned it round, so you saw Voyager coming home and flying over Earth with fireworks etc in retrospect. Many people say they wanted that at the end of the show but all the director did was show it at the beginning. It was a whole galaxy better than the ending of DS9 and I had a memory block for the last ep of Enterprise but I heard it didn't go down so well.
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