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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 6 2013, 09:40 PM   #1
bbjeg
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Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Klingons did blow up a Cardassian star to destroy a Dominion shipyard plus Romulans should have seen a supernova coming from years ahead.

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Old June 6 2013, 09:45 PM   #2
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Klingons did blow up a Cardassian star to destroy a shipyard
Actually, that was just a variation on the theme of flare bombs (already seen in "Redemption II"): the star was still intact after the deed. Whether the flare would have damaged a planet, we don't know (and the speed at which it moved would have meant that only the daylight side would have been devastated anyway, for whatever consolation that is).

But I agree that there must have been something "unnatural" about that supernova, or else Romulans would not have stubbornly disbelieved in it even after Spock's warnings. Perhaps it was Klingon retribution for the Romulans blowing up Praxis?

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Old June 6 2013, 09:46 PM   #3
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

I doubt it. We have heard absolutely zilch about the Klingons being responsible for the Hobus supernova. I doubt they have that ability. And besides...

The Klingons might try to occupy Romulan territory, but not flat-out destroy it.
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Old June 6 2013, 09:50 PM   #4
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Klingons in TNG know a lot of interesting ways to destroy stuff. The atmosphere-torching in "The Chase" was pretty impressive, for example. It shouldn't be all that unlikely for them to learn new and even more destructive arts post-TNG.

Whether Klingons really covet territory, we don't know. The impression we get from TNG and DS9 is that they simply want to crush their enemies; their single known conquest, from "Errand of Mercy", also merely served the higher purpose of giving the UFP a walloping. And while the competitions in "Trouble with Tribbles", "Friday's Child" and "A Private Little War" all involved planets, it seemed to be the game rather than the prize that mattered...

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Old June 6 2013, 09:52 PM   #5
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Timo wrote: View Post
it seemed to be the game rather than the prize that mattered...
And if the Klingons really did have the ability to blow up Hobus and destroy Romulus in one fell swoop, where's the "game" in that? Where's the battle? Klingons live for that. Destroying Romulus lickety-split would be too easy. There'd be no challenge in it.

Also, if they had the technology to destroy ONE planetary system, they'd be doing it all the time....
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Old June 6 2013, 09:58 PM   #6
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Timo wrote: View Post
But I agree that there must have been something "unnatural" about that supernova, or else Romulans would not have stubbornly disbelieved in it even after Spock's warnings.
Yes, it's mentioned in the comics. Personally I think Nero destroyed the Hobus star in 2258 as soon as he got the Jellyfish.
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Old June 6 2013, 10:01 PM   #7
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And if the Klingons really did have the ability to blow up Hobus and destroy Romulus in one fell swoop, where's the "game" in that?
Glorious victory?
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Old June 6 2013, 10:11 PM   #8
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Indeed - a true Klingon isn't afraid to confess that the highest honor is in winning... ("Way of the Warrior")

Yes, it's mentioned in the comics.
But the comics make so little sense overall. It can't be some obscure "Hobus" that is blowing up, because Spock deploys his red matter into the supernova in the Romulan home system. He sees Romulus die with his own eyes - and so does Nero, who immediately confronts Spock and ends up falling into Spock's black hole, which thus lies right next to Romulus.

There can't be any travel time and distance between the spot where the red matter is deployed and the spot where Romulus used to stand, because

a) of the seeing with one's own eyes thing
b) Spock has a fast ship and Nero has a slow one - no chance of a long chase there

On the other hand, deploying the red matter anywhere else than at the heart of the supernova would make little sense. What possible good would asymmetric deployment at the fringe of a deadly wavefront achieve? Yet Spock seems sure that his deployment will solve the problem once and for all (even if a bit late).

Ergo, the supernova was right next to Romulus...

Which is a very good thing, because supernovas generally aren't immediately harmful to planets in another star system altogether!

Personally I think Nero destroyed the Hobus star in 2258 as soon as he got the Jellyfish.
Agreed on that, if one believes in "Hobus" in the first place. Hey, since time travel in Trek usually involves going to the very same spot in space, only in a different time, odds are that the star we saw when George Kirk died would have been the very same that Spock belatedly extinguished in the future...

If one doesn't believe in Hobus, the logic still stands. In which case the star we saw could have been the Romulan homestar! In TOS, our heroes knew where the Romulan home was but not who the Romulans were. In STXI, they seem to know who the Romulans are, but not necessarily where they live.

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Old June 6 2013, 11:49 PM   #9
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Conquering wouldn't be fun for Klingons without the looting and pillaging.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:51 PM   #10
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Conquering wouldn't be fun for Klingons without the looting and pillaging.
Butchering the women, raping the cattle.
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Old June 7 2013, 01:49 AM   #11
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Timo, would you mind making clear who you are quoting ? It's not easy to spot your replies to me.

Timo wrote: View Post
But the comics make so little sense overall.
They say it's a supernova like they never saw before, and some other material mentions subspace shockwaves or something. Sounds good to me.

It can't be some obscure "Hobus" that is blowing up, because Spock deploys his red matter into the supernova in the Romulan home system. He sees Romulus die with his own eyes - and so does Nero, who immediately confronts Spock and ends up falling into Spock's black hole, which thus lies right next to Romulus.
Wait... (checks back to the comics) ... no, Spock didn't go to Romulus like you said. Nero witnessed the destruction of Romulus while Spock was still somewhere else. Only later did Spock travel to Hobus itself to take care of it.

Ergo, the supernova was right next to Romulus...
Ergo nothing. Your memory is incorrect. Please check back the Countdown comic. I have it right here.

Which is a very good thing, because supernovas generally aren't immediately harmful to planets in another star system altogether!
Subspace shockwave. Again, good enough for me.

Agreed on that, if one believes in "Hobus" in the first place. Hey, since time travel in Trek usually involves going to the very same spot in space, only in a different time, odds are that the star we saw when George Kirk died would have been the very same that Spock belatedly extinguished in the future...
Ok, yes. But what do you mean "if we believe in 'Hobus'" ? It was right there.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:21 AM   #12
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

The supernova being Romulus's own star would solve a few problems, but it would just raise others. Not the least of which being that Spock's plan will basically fuck Romulus either way. I guess that explains why Nero is so pissed off at him (I would be too), but it turns Spock into a genocidal mass murderer. There's really no good way to rationalize the supernova business.

There are things to like about Abrams Trek, but it takes scientific illiteracy to whole new levels.
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Old June 7 2013, 08:24 AM   #13
Timo
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Timo, would you mind making clear who you are quoting ? It's not easy to spot your replies to me.
Yup, sorry about that.

They say it's a supernova like they never saw before, and some other material mentions subspace shockwaves or something. Sounds good to me.
Doesn't jibe with what Spock says in the mind meld scene, though. But it's possible Spock is oversimplifying, or downright lying.

Wait... (checks back to the comics) ... no, Spock didn't go to Romulus like you said. Nero witnessed the destruction of Romulus while Spock was still somewhere else. Only later did Spock travel to Hobus itself to take care of it.
But the comic is dead wrong on that. Spock stopped the supernova "somewhere", with "only minutes to spare" after the loss of Romulus, and then set back for Vulcan, in his very fast ship. But Nero immediately intercepted him, before this very fast ship could get away, and both ships plunged into the black hole. If this black hole weren't in the Romulan home system, Nero would not have gotten there in time.

Ergo nothing. Your memory is incorrect. Please check back the Countdown comic. I have it right here.
But if the comic contradicts the movie, it's just so much toilet paper.

But what do you mean "if we believe in 'Hobus'" ? It was right there.
Where? There's no Hobus anywhere in the movie.

-Brett- wrote:
The supernova being Romulus's own star would solve a few problems, but it would just raise others. Not the least of which being that Spock's plan will basically fuck Romulus either way.
Well, at the very least it should have eliminated the shockwave that pulverized the planet, giving Romulus some time to evacuate from their now black-hole-lit world. But we don't know what a properly applied drop of red matter would have done to a supernova before it detonated; for all we know, it would simply have stabilized the star.

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Old June 7 2013, 10:42 AM   #14
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

The supernova exploded before Spock even met with the Romulan leadership. Putting Red Matter into the unexploded star was never an option.

It was a magic Star Trek FTL explosion, just like Praxis. According to the Star Trek Online game, the Remans did it by injecting protomatter into the star. Personally, I'm looking forward to the novelverse's version of the event which will be coming up in the next couple of years.
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Old June 7 2013, 10:57 AM   #15
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Re: Did the Klingons destroy Romulus in Abrams Star Trek?

Timo wrote: View Post
Doesn't jibe with what Spock says in the mind meld scene, though. But it's possible Spock is oversimplifying, or downright lying.
I think it "jibes" quite nicely.

But the comic is dead wrong on that. Spock stopped the supernova "somewhere", with "only minutes to spare" after the loss of Romulus, and then set back for Vulcan, in his very fast ship. But Nero immediately intercepted him, before this very fast ship could get away, and both ships plunged into the black hole. If this black hole weren't in the Romulan home system, Nero would not have gotten there in time.
The movie narrates in very very compressed time. And he didn't say "minutes". He said he had to act quickly, presumably before the supernova did more damage.

But if the comic contradicts the movie, it's just so much toilet paper.
Yeah, it doesn't. Have you read it ?

Where? There's no Hobus anywhere in the movie.
Spock mentions it but not by name, and as luck wuold have it, Nero emerges in 2233 right next to a big orange star.
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