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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 10 2013, 10:59 PM   #106
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
When TMP was made, they expected the Voyager program to continue.
That's not true. They initially were supposed to be part of the Mariner program, and then there were supposed to be 4 probes but that ended in 1972, way before TMP was penned.
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Old June 11 2013, 12:01 AM   #107
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

In STIII, Kirk had one other source informing his seemingly illogical decisions--Spock's own katra, in McCoy's body. "You left me on Genesis...why did you do that?"
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Old June 11 2013, 12:42 AM   #108
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
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Generations annoys me the most.
If I had reviewed that script before production, I would have made some serious alterations to it. Just for Enterprise, I'd have Riker call Picard and apprise him of the situation, so that when he came back from the Nexus he could warn the Enterprise, they would chase the Klingon ship away and blow the hell out of Soran's installation.

Kirk lives, Enterprise is saved. Yay for everyone.
Yup. I don't know how someone can argue against GEN for worst plot-hole offender.

The entire third act is a plot hole.
Not only that -- as bad as it is -- but the entire set up at the beginning of the movie doesn't match the pay off. Kirk is set up as being unhappy in a quiet retirement. We're practically beaten over the head with the idea that Kirk needs to be right in the middle of the action. So what, according to the Nexus, is his greatest wish? A quiet retirement. WTF?

Picard, on thje other hand, has been thinking about the family life he sacrificed. But he's the one trying to convince Kirk to leave the Nexus. Logically, the way the movie was set up, it should be Kirk convincing Picard to go back. I understand this is a TNG movie and the writers wanted the hero, Picard, to take the active role. But, in that case, they needed an entirely different story setup for both characters. Just criminal writing, throughout the film.

It's a pity "Generations" is such an irredeemable mess, as I thought it had the most potential of all the TNG films. I only saw "Nemesis" once, so I don't remember the plot holes, but that movie would have had to work hard to have as many holes as "Generations."
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Old June 11 2013, 10:26 AM   #109
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Picard, on thje other hand, has been thinking about the family life he sacrificed. But he's the one trying to convince Kirk to leave the Nexus. Logically, the way the movie was set up, it should be Kirk convincing Picard to go back. I understand this is a TNG movie and the writers wanted the hero, Picard, to take the active role. But, in that case, they needed an entirely different story setup for both characters. Just criminal writing, throughout the film.
Wow, I never caught that. Good post.
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Old June 11 2013, 01:28 PM   #110
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Lots of the movies suffer from "the Enterprise is the only ship in range".

Back in the 1980s I remember reading a review of III that made some very good points about the plot. For example why wouldn't the Federation authorise a ship to go and get Spock's body. And why,if Genesis is so sensitive, would they not send more ships to guard it. But looking past that, why do they even need his body? McCoy has his katra so why not just take McCoy to Vulcan? They don't know that Spock's body is alive at that point.

There's a line in IV that goes something like "the president said the transmissions were directed at the oceans" and then they deduce they were directed at humpback whales. But as far as I remember the president doesn't actually say the transmissions were directed at the oceans! (I guess a line was cut.)

Generations is just a mess, but I will sum up my thoughts with "Why doesn't Soran just fly a ship into the nexus?" It worked for him before. And i remember the Nitpickers guide made a very good point that even if the star blows up the MASS of the star is still centered on the same place it was in, therefore the nexus wouldn't change course.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:03 PM   #111
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

It's a pity "Generations" is such an irredeemable mess, as I thought it had the most potential of all the TNG films. I only saw "Nemesis" once, so I don't remember the plot holes, but that movie would have had to work hard to have as many holes as "Generations."
Wel nemesis was really really bad
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Old June 11 2013, 04:19 PM   #112
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

NightJim wrote: View Post
In TWOK only thing that got me was Chekov mentioning the things in the ear and McCoy totally ignoring it.
Chekov said that Khan put the eels into their bodies. McCoy had no way of knowing that he meant their ears. He also had no surgical equipment with which to remove the eels, which had integrated themselves into the central nervous system.

NightJim wrote:
However, the Enterprise arriving at the Genesis Planet, sees no ships because the Klingon Bird of Prey was cloaked. What about the Grissom's wreckage? That'd have been a nice little nod to have Kirk on edge, which wouldn't have hurt.
Grissom may have been destroyed on the far side of the planet. Also, Kirk asked Chekov to perform a short-range scan of the area, so Enterprise may not have cast a wide enough net to pull in any information about Grissom's demise.

NightJim wrote:
Enterprise's self destruct acts like explosives are ringing the ship, which is a rather terrible design decision. Surely it'd just be warp core exploding. But the engine's are completely intact. It's the saucer section that explodes.
Several novels mention different types of auto-destruct sequences used to destroy a ship. Warp-core breaches are used in deep space. Ringed explosions are used near a planetary body to avoid taking out the planet when the ship explodes.

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Old June 11 2013, 07:11 PM   #113
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
It's a pity "Generations" is such an irredeemable mess, as I thought it had the most potential of all the TNG films. I only saw "Nemesis" once, so I don't remember the plot holes, but that movie would have had to work hard to have as many holes as "Generations."
Wel nemesis was really really bad
Yes, that I do recall.
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Old June 11 2013, 09:24 PM   #114
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

chevron wrote: View Post
There's a line in IV that goes something like "the president said the transmissions were directed at the oceans" and then they deduce they were directed at humpback whales. But as far as I remember the president doesn't actually say the transmissions were directed at the oceans! (I guess a line was cut.)
Ah, yes. I remember noticing that.
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Old June 11 2013, 09:31 PM   #115
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Belz... wrote: View Post
chevron wrote: View Post
There's a line in IV that goes something like "the president said the transmissions were directed at the oceans" and then they deduce they were directed at humpback whales. But as far as I remember the president doesn't actually say the transmissions were directed at the oceans! (I guess a line was cut.)
Ah, yes. I remember noticing that.
From http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie4.html:

FEDERATION PRESIDENT (on viewscreen): This is the President of the United Federation of Planets. Do not approach Earth!
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (OC): The transmissions of an orbiting Probe are causing critical damage to this planet.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (on viewscreen): It has almost totally ionised our atmosphere.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (OC): All power sources have failed. All orbiting starships are powerless. The Probe is vaporising our oceans.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (on viewscreen): We cannot survive unless a way can be found to respond to the Probe. Further communications may not be possible
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (OC): Save your energy, Save yourselves.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT (on viewscreen): Avoid the Planet Earth at all costs. ...Farewell.
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Old June 11 2013, 10:43 PM   #116
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

That's a rather vague statement to interpret as the transmissions being directed at the oceans, considering the worldwide damage they seemed to be causing.
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Old June 11 2013, 10:45 PM   #117
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Belz... wrote: View Post
That's a rather vague statement to interpret as the transmissions being directed at the oceans, considering the worldwide damage they seemed to be causing.
Anything powerful enough to disrupt an entire planet's ocean system will probably disrupt other environmental phenomena, too.

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Old June 12 2013, 12:22 AM   #118
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

True.
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Old June 12 2013, 01:18 AM   #119
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
Wel nemesis was really really bad
Indeed...I don't think of Nemesis as having "plot holes" so much as just being stupid.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:07 AM   #120
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Well Nemesis had a good premise, and good ideas, really. Finally getting the Romulans into the movies, the Reman uprising, the clone infiltrator (not B4, Shinzon), the implications of self...

...unfortunately it was poorly executed on almost every level. It feels like an overly-long TNG episode. The battle at the end is pretty cool, but even it has problems.
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