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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old June 5 2013, 06:07 PM   #16
Masquerade
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Leaving Khan and company alone on an undeveloped planet with only the basics, no transmitter and no means of leaving to find civilization? Is that mercy, or fundamentally a death sentence?
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Old June 5 2013, 06:08 PM   #17
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

The whole thing seemed odd to me. Imprisoning them and refreezing seemed like the obvious choice. Why take the chance that a random ship stops by, detects life, and goes down for a visit only for Khan and company to commandeer it for their own purposes.

I mean that must have been a viable option. If it wasn't because Khan and his crew so much stronger and more intelligent then they would have simply just taken the ship, why agree to be stranded?
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Old June 5 2013, 07:03 PM   #18
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Why take the chance that a random ship stops by...
That wasn't really a likely possibility in TOS. While the plots of certain episodes did require the Enterprise to sort of "go back home" to ferry ambassadors or whatnot, the basic setting of the show was on the far frontier of explored space. And space was a lot bigger and a lot less crowded in TOS than in the spinoffs. A "remote" planet actually could be remote.
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Old June 5 2013, 07:25 PM   #19
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Why take the chance that a random ship stops by...
That wasn't really a likely possibility in TOS. While the plots of certain episodes did require the Enterprise to sort of "go back home" to ferry ambassadors or whatnot, the basic setting of the show was on the far frontier of explored space. And space was a lot bigger and a lot less crowded in TOS than in the spinoffs. A "remote" planet actually could be remote.
Well.....so far as the characters know anyway. I mean every week they were discovering strange new worlds, certainly they would start realizing that the universe IS more crowded than they expected.

It still seems like too big of a chance to take, but i also have the foresight of retconned augments who appear A LOT more powerful than Khan and crew were in Space Seed or WoK.
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Old June 5 2013, 07:50 PM   #20
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Okay, so Kirk executes Khan.

Kirk then becomes one more uninteresting, unexceptional TV cowboy of that era. Who'd remember him or the show now?
Who remembers this scene?
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Old June 5 2013, 07:54 PM   #21
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Well.....so far as the characters know anyway. I mean every week they were discovering strange new worlds, certainly they would start realizing that the universe IS more crowded than they expected.
I don't think Kirk and company would really worry about planet-bound, pre-spaceflight civilizations they found stumbling onto Khan and his gang. Certainly they'd not be concerned about the god-like aliens they encountered falling victim to him.

As for space-faring civilizations at technological levels similar to the Feds, they really didn't encounter very many of them. Even so, I have a hard time believing Khan and his colony would represent any greater danger to, say, the First Federation than the dangers they would just naturally face by exploring space in the first place.

...i also have the foresight of retconned augments who appear A LOT more powerful than Khan and crew were in Space Seed or WoK.
I never make assumptions about the Original Series' intentions based on what the spinoffs cobbled together after the fact.
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Old June 5 2013, 08:01 PM   #22
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Big Daddy wrote: View Post

True, but they were given a fighting chance. If you came across Hitler, would you give him a fighting chance? Remember, Khan and his followers were responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions!

Give them their Nuremberg, fine...but their own world to conquer and tame?
As I said, I don't disagree with you. I just remembered what happened in the movie.
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Old June 5 2013, 08:51 PM   #23
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Dream wrote: View Post
The death sentence was outlawed in Starfleet with the exception of General Order 7, so Kirk killing Khan after winning the fist fight would make Kirk a murderer.
Technically Kirk would have to kill (or order to kill) all of Khan's people as well since they were all genetically enhanced superhumans and they all posed a risk. Killing just Khan, especially if they called it self defense, is one thing. Killing them all is mass murder.
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Old June 5 2013, 09:53 PM   #24
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Compare this to the fact that Khan apparently killed nobody!

...Well, yes, technically he presumed he had killed Kirk with the pressure chamber thing. But he didn't really bother to feign surprise when finding Kirk alive and well.

The episode started out with Kirk and his crew idolizing Khan. It really did not end differently. As far as bad guys go, Khan was downright gentlemanly, a man very much to Kirk's liking.

Considering him a "criminal" based on what he did in the past would be pretty thick. He was a head of state, after all - immune to prosecution if anything! What he did after being waken up did not seem to bother Kirk too much, either.

Leaving Khan and company alone on an undeveloped planet with only the basics, no transmitter and no means of leaving to find civilization? Is that mercy, or fundamentally a death sentence?
Neither, I'd think. The planet did not pose any mortal threat to settlers, as far as we were told, and the Earth or Federation colonies we saw in TOS were all of this type anyway: a tiny bunch of people who have severed all ties with their former home and settled down with basic tools and little else. OTOH, dropping Khan off on an alien world is just defusing a bomb, as the endeavor supposedly would consume Khan's ambition and turn his powers to good.

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Old June 5 2013, 10:02 PM   #25
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Because Trek hadn't become just "kill the badguy, save the day" yet. Morality, ethics and other things that make you think are what make for a good episode.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:11 PM   #26
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Because it's the 60s and good guys don't execute people.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:49 PM   #27
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

I think it made sense to exile Khan and the rest of his followers. For one thing, there would be no chance that they could escape, since Ceti Alpha V had no technological base. And if Kirk and the rest of Starfleet had been more diligent about putting warning beacons in orbit and all that, there would have been no chance of somebody else accidentally stumbling across Khan. So if that plan had worked, Khan and the Augments would have been permanently isolated, with a colony consisting only OF Augments, and no chance of innocent people getting hurt or killed.

Timo wrote: View Post
Considering him a "criminal" based on what he did in the past would be pretty thick. He was a head of state, after all - immune to prosecution if anything!
Khan was not a legitimate government. He was a dictator who seized power by force. He didn't earn it. He wasn't recognized as a head of state according to normal diplomatic channels. Thus he doesn't deserve any protection afforded to same.
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Old June 6 2013, 12:08 AM   #28
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

starburst wrote: View Post

The biggest problem is why no one stopped off every so often to see how a potential threat was doing, by WOK Starfleet seemed to forget they were in that system (and hadnt noticed a missing planet), any Starfleet ship surveying that system should have had orders to scan the planet.
This is one of the points brought up in IDW's good comic, Khan: Reigning In Hell which bridges the gap between "Space Seed" and TWOK. Khan was a tyrant in many respects, yet Kirk and Scotty acknowledge that he had a sense of honor other respects. He committed no massacres during his rule and didn't attack anyone offensively, unless he was directly attacked.

Khan's enhanced memory made it easier for him and his followers to nearly succeed in controlling the Enterprise, and Kirk reasons in RIH that the same could potentially happen to another vessel or a starbase. That advantage plus the eugenics' somewhat ruthless nature ensured that they would make such attempts.

Khan, as per RIH, had a measure of respect for Kirk for genuinely defeating him (not easily done) and offering him a measure of honor in giving them another chance on Ceti Alpha V, even if it was barely charted and a challenging environment according to some other sources. He assumed that Kirk would indeed have some way of monitoring him if only for Starfleet's security, given the events on board the Enterprise, and that they might even be given aid solely because it was an ethical thing to do. That they would be ignored and left to survive on whatever was left did much to wear away any sort of respect or trust Khan might have had in the years building up to TWOK. Some of his people questioned his apparent faith in Kirk and led a revolt which ultimately cost their lives alone with Marla's, and Khan saw that as Kirk's blame too.
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Old June 6 2013, 06:37 AM   #29
Gary7
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Khan was guilty of attempted murder and attempted hijacking of a Federation starship. But in the Federation's eyes, those wouldn't be grounds for execution. About the only crime that was threatened with death was visiting Talos IV.

Should Kirk have confined Khan and his followers to the brig and ferried them to a starbase for trial? Perhaps... But OTOH, it may have not been expedient to do so. A class M planet not claimed by anyone? Seemed a little peculiar to me, but given what little resources were given to Khan and his followers, one could consider it a kind of penal colony. Cut off from the rest of humanity, with no means of escape. And I'd have expected a probe would be left in the vicinity to monitor things like keeping away visitors.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:41 AM   #30
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Re: Why Let Khan Live?

Napoleon was exiled to the island of Elba. Thankfully the adjacent island did't blow up causing a change in the climate.
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