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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 9 2013, 10:20 PM   #31
Worf2DS9
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I'm also of the mind that the Khan revelation was a disappointment. I thought Cumberbatch was great as the villain, but I just did not like that he ended up being Khan, and not just because he's not the first face that springs to mind when you think of someone called Khan Noonien Singh. As others have mentioned, he didn't need to be Khan in the movie. This actually soured my opinion of the character. If they had to do a TOS villain redux, then I would have preferred Gary Mitchell, who was doing the rumour rounds along with Khan in the months prior to release. That could have been an interesting story; Kirk having to deal with his chum causing all this mayhem. In the end, John Harrison should have been left as John Harrison.
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Old June 9 2013, 10:21 PM   #32
Phily B
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I liked the twist, but I think the movie could've stood on its own without it.
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Old June 9 2013, 10:22 PM   #33
Set Harth
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I could see a third film where a bunch of galactic barrier mutants ( not Mitchell this time, different characters ) go to war against the Klingons and the Federation.
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Old June 10 2013, 04:16 AM   #34
The Wormhole
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Worf2DS9 wrote: View Post
If they had to do a TOS villain redux, then I would have preferred Gary Mitchell, who was doing the rumour rounds along with Khan in the months prior to release.
If they had to make him a TOS character, I'd have gone with one of the renegade captains. Hell, I can easily see things working perfectly if they had made him Captain Garth. Particularly if they played up his celebrity status and made the crew uneasy about going up against someone they all revere.

Casting might be a problem, since Cumberbatch is only four years older than Pine. Though with creative writing, the character could be in his 40s but looks young for his age and also like Kirk he jumped from cadet to captain. Hey a parallel the two of them could play off of. Shit, this could have been a pretty good movie.

Phily B wrote: View Post
I liked the twist, but I think the movie could've stood on its own without it.
Which, strangely enough, Orci actually admitted.
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Old June 11 2013, 01:36 AM   #35
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

John Garrison: "My name is Garth."

Jim: "Garth of Izar!? I studied your missions at the Academy. How could you turn traitor!"

and . . . .

Spock: "Gaaaaaaaaaaaarth!"

People would still have complained:

"Why did they do a Garth retread!? They should have used Gary Mitchell. He wouldn't have been a retread."

I would have still:





Therefore, nothing would have changed.

Prime Trek is dead. Bad Robot Trek is alive.

People like Bad Robot and Prime Trek.

Long live Star Trek.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:12 PM   #36
DalekJim
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Him being Khan added nothing to the movie other than the chance to do those homage sequences. But seeing as we're always fucking told this movie is definitely NOT for Star Trek fans, and we're the only ones that would get these references... what was the point?

The movie was an OK popcorn flick and I liked Cumberbatch but I kept forgetting he was Khan while watching the movie. I think they should have done a John Harrison movie, or a movie where we know he's Khan from the start. The way they went about it fell flat.

Last edited by DalekJim; June 13 2013 at 05:37 PM.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:52 PM   #37
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Yes, I agree with those who think that John Harrison should have been John Harrison.


Last edited by throwback; June 13 2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason: removed extraneous material that might be seen as hindsight & wishful thinking
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Old June 13 2013, 12:12 AM   #38
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I liked the "twist"...it gave him a background the audience could automatically relate to and played on his previous story. I wouldn't change it at all.
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Old June 13 2013, 01:27 PM   #39
newtontomato539
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Shhhhh. Common sense doesn't belong here.

pat on the back. standing ovation.

First the complaint is, "They don't care about us old school fans!"

Now the complaint is, "They do care about us old school fans! Those jerks! We hate them!"
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Old June 13 2013, 01:48 PM   #40
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I totally agree that John Harrison should've been John Harrison, Starfleet Augment... but that change pretty much requires rewriting the whole movie, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Instead of a TWOK retread, they could've played up the Section 31 angle and explored the hypocrisy of the Federation (they hide behind the Prime Directive while millions/billions die, but they condemn people doing shady things for a good cause). Heck, if they had to rehash a TOS story, why not do TUC in reverse? Have the Starfleet/Klingon conspiracy be about bringing peace, not stopping it.
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Old June 13 2013, 05:38 PM   #41
DalekJim
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
First the complaint is, "They don't care about us old school fans!"

Now the complaint is, "They do care about us old school fans! Those jerks! We hate them!"
Pretty sure the complaint is that Khan was poorly realised and underwhelming .
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Old June 13 2013, 05:44 PM   #42
newtontomato539
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Because there wasn't a 3 hour flashblack.

Yeah, sure.

Because Richardo can't be clone.

Yeah, sure.

Because a Hispanic actor wasn't cast.

Yeah, sure.

Bad Robot Trek is here stay. Making up stuff isn't going to bring back Prime Trek.
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Old June 13 2013, 05:54 PM   #43
-Brett-
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

bullethead wrote: View Post
I totally agree that John Harrison should've been John Harrison, Starfleet Augment... but that change pretty much requires rewriting the whole movie...
Not really. Only the brig scene would have needed any significant change.
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Old June 13 2013, 10:51 PM   #44
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Admiral Marcus produces a platoon of genetically engineered super agents, and freezes them to keep control of their leader John Harrison as soon as he realizes that he loses grip of Harrison.

It doesn't take 72 minutes to rewrite that.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:50 PM   #45
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I'm holding on to the possibility that in the next movie we find out that Harrison wasn't the real Khan.
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