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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old August 2 2013, 08:41 PM   #211
zDarby
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Here are pix of the 4 sizes I'm calculating for.
Give me your gut reaction: Which size do you like better?

Scenario 1 - Small: The top bulge is one deck tall. This is the size indicated by the blueprints linked to earlier.




Scenario 2 - Medium: The lip of the main hull is the same height as the lip of the Constitution's saucer --about two decks.




Scenario 3 - Large: The breadth of her main hull is about same as the diameter of a Constitution's saucer. This seems to be the size most often quoted.




Scenario 4 - Extra Large: The length of the nacelles are the same as the length of the nacelles of the Constitution.

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Old August 3 2013, 01:11 AM   #212
Albertese
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I'm a fan of the littlest BoP.

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Old August 3 2013, 02:30 AM   #213
bullethead
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

The second looks like a good size for a small warship that would have enough fuel to do its job and go back home.
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Old August 3 2013, 03:44 AM   #214
blssdwlf
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I like option 2 (medium). Although the idea of the plasma weapon being some kind of spinal mount weapon seems to suggest a larger size, IMO.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:32 AM   #215
zDarby
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Forgetting the numbers and going with my impressions, the smallest just doesn't look formidable. It looks cute. A small personnel shuttle limited to one solar system. A transport. A gad fly. A sitting duck. I can't take it seriously.

The third one, "large", looks ungainly instead of threatening. Which doesn't make much sense, really, as they're all the same shape. So what makes this one more ungainly than any other?

The second one, "medium", looks sleek and capable. If I were to choose one for a stealth ship by its looks alone, this is the one I'd choose.

But the forth one... XL... It looks Romulan to me. I know that doesn't make sense but there it is.
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Old August 3 2013, 01:55 PM   #216
Bernard Guignard
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

SFB uses all 4 sizes

#1 Frigate/Corvette

#2 Destroyer

#3 Cruiser

#4 Dreadnought/Battleship

Roughly Nice comparisons by the way
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Old August 3 2013, 10:47 PM   #217
zDarby
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

In general, I am not a fan of having several classes of vesssel that are just scaled versions of each other. The Klingon bird of prey, for example, ticks me off.

But in this case I think it might be practical. I mean, the TOS BOP has exceptionally simple topography: an extruded saucer with wings. And from the point of view of secrecy, if all your ships look alike then an enemy agent can't be sure she saw a Corvette or a Dreadnaught without scanners that would give her presence away.

I'm not sure how much I buy the idea, but I'm not opposed to it... Which is odd.
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Old August 4 2013, 02:02 AM   #218
Unicron
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I don't mind scaled versions as long as there's a logical reason for it - the FASA take on the BOP is a good example IMO (all of the variants had different capabilities, and only looked superficially the same). Sometimes it's easier to build a larger or smaller version of an already existing design than to build a completely original one.
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Old August 5 2013, 04:38 PM   #219
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Option 2 just feels right to me.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:13 PM   #220
Timo
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

FWIW, a British N class destroyer would have been about 110 m long and 11 m wide, while a German Type VII sub would have been 67 m long and 6 m wide... The respective displacements would have been 2,300 tons and 870 tons (submerged).

If we ignore nacelles and pylons (or scale them in terms of the respective propulsive performances of the destroyer and the sub, rather than size), option 2 is probably the closest to the WWII comparison: the primary hulls are in similar length and height relationship to each other then. But a submarine's hull is usable to a much smaller degree than a destroyer's: the pressure hull is smaller than the overall hull, and there's no useful superstructure. In that sense, option 1 would be closer - and the difference in nacelle size would truly begin to approximate the propulsive disparity between a destroyer and a sub!

The displacement ratio would probably favor something between options 1 and 2...

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Old August 5 2013, 06:54 PM   #221
Robert Comsol
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

My firtst encounter with the Romulan BoP were the AMT model kits (before I saw the episode) and for some unconscious reason I already felt the model (option 3 if I remember correctly) to be too big next to the AMT Enterprise.

Maybe it's the lack of truly interesting exterior features (like a hangar bay?), the vessel looks rather compact and more like an oversized shuttlecraft compared to the Klingon Battlecruiser or the Enterprise.

For me, option # 2 is the one that feels right. I wouldn't really mind option # 1 but anything bigger than # 2 looks odd to me.

Bob

P.S.

Just came across this great source with descriptions and lines from the original "Balance of Terror" script.

Here, the Bridge of the Romulan Bird of Prey was originally envisioned to be a "cockpit"...hmm...sounds like the BoP was rather intended to be some kind of stealth bomber (coming from a mothership?).
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; August 6 2013 at 03:35 PM. Reason: original episode's intentions
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Old August 6 2013, 08:18 PM   #222
Mytran
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Interesting link to the script, thanks for the reminder! FWIW, I'm also favouring option 2.

I know what you mean about the model size, if you're referring to the 3-ship set; the Romulan bridge/cockpit definitely suggests a smaller vessel. In fact, were it not for the aforementioned "cute" factor of option 1 I might even plant my flag there - effectively a small control crew riding a massive power plant and torpedo tube.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:27 PM   #223
Robert Comsol
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Yes, I also had the AMT 3-ship set in mind. But I'm afraid I have slipped into the option # 1 camp (Hi, Albertese), partially due to that "cockpit" intention in the original script.

While it's correct that the obvious analogy in the episode is that of a destroyer chasing a submarine, the vessel itself is not depicted as some kind of sea monster but as a flying bird of prey...!

It just doesn't have pylons like the Enterprise but forward-swept wings which could suggest atmospheric travel and planetfall capability (and has roughly the same size as the Romulan Bird of Prey envisioned for STFS before it turned into a Klingon BoP).

The Commander's wondering whether they still had nuclear warheads on board suggests that the vessel was stripped of weight, very much like the US bombers in the Dolitle Raid on Tokyo.

We never see a ship wide announcement on the Romulan vessel (in contrast to the Enterprise) and the only fatality the Romulans suffered appears to be the centurion (= small crew).

And last but not least the tail fin doesn't really serve a believable purpose, if the vessel was much, much larger. It is reminiscent of a ship's or plane's rudder.

Bob

P.S. Alternately the tail fin might be the Romulan's vessel excess heat dissipator / intercooler. I wonder how this would reflect in a size comparison assuming the width of the intercooler is comparable to that of a Federation Starship.

Another, previously unmentioned, analogy that rather suggests the BoP to have aeronautic than maritime qualities, IMHO, is its use to test a weapon of mass destruction (the plasma-energy projectile).

I had already mentioned the B-25 bomber Doolittle Raid, but failed to mention that the test of the new weapon is reminiscent of the atom bomb the Enola Gay (B-29 bomber) used to destroy Hiroshima...

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; August 7 2013 at 10:34 AM.
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Old August 7 2013, 05:30 PM   #224
Praetor
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I still find myself in Option 2 camp. I think the slightly larger version seems more like a legitimate threat against the Enterprise, and I still like the notion of a cramped ship filled mostly with tech. Also, despite the intention, the control room wasn't an out-and-out cockpit on screen, which keeps me from jumping ship to Option 1.
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Old August 7 2013, 07:56 PM   #225
feek61
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Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

In the original script the BOP was suppose to be about the size of the saucer section of the Enterprise. The original story idea was that the Romulan's had stolen plans from the Federation. CMDR. Hanson actually says something like "our design" upon reporting the ship to the Enterprise. He recognized and identified the ship as the same shape as the primary hull of the Constitution class starship. That being said; I would have to go with option 2 or 3 (actually I think I would vote for 2.5 because there should be a size between the two IMO).
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