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Old June 2 2013, 05:49 AM   #31
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Also, is she Bajoran? Are the Bajorans the only wrinkle-nose aliens?
Nothing is expressly stated about her Bajoran-ness or otherwise. We only get a reference to a father of ill-repute and her name, Mudd. In addition to the nose ridges, in her first appearance on-panel, we can see what could be construed as a Bajoran earring.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:20 AM   #32
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

Christopher wrote: View Post

My main reason for skepticism is that Roger C. Carmel was a year and a half younger than William Shatner, though he looked older. Harry would've had to be substantially older than his portrayer in order to have an adult daughter at a time when Kirk's nearly 26. I could buy that Harry was in his early 40s when we met him in 2266, about a decade older than his portrayer, but that would put him in his upper 30s at the time of Countdown to Darkness. It's not out of the question that someone that age could have an adult daughter, if he'd been under 20 when he conceived her, but that's kind of pushing the limits of probability.
This is a fair point. Carmel does look to be deep into his forties in TOS, but as you pointed out, the new film takes place even earlier than his original appearance. An adult-ish daughter does seem unlikely but maybe Bajor's sun hyper-ages children with human DNA (like it did to Molly O'Brien when she was brought to DS9) or perhaps Miss Mudd fell into that time vortex and came out 18 years old (again, like poor Molly did in Time's Orphan).
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Old June 2 2013, 06:43 AM   #33
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

Harry Mudd was 47 in Mudd's Women (according to the shooting script), which makes him 39-40 circa Countdown to Darkness. We'll say 'Harriet' is 18-20, which makes Harry around the same age when she was born. So it is plausible.
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Old June 2 2013, 08:23 AM   #34
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

Christopher wrote: View Post
Jsplinis wrote: View Post
It has pretty much been confirmed that Countdown, Countdown to Darkness, Ongoing and the Star Trek Video Game are canon in the Abrams-verses based on interviews with Roberto Orci.
Since when? Orci's said repeatedly over the past several years that he accepts the standard Trek policy that only onscreen material is canon. There was that one time that Anthony Pascale at TrekMovie interviewed him and basically browbeat him into agreeing that the tie-ins should be canon, and Orci said "Okay, they're canon" basically to shut him up, and then retracted it a comment the very next day.

And there are plenty of things in the Ongoing comic that have been blatantly contradicted by Into Darkness -- crewmembers dying in the first two storylines, Sulu holding the conn in a couple of storylines, Scotty continuing to develop transwarp beaming when the film said the tech was confiscated by Starfleet, etc. Countdown had some inconsistencies with the first film as well, like painting a backstory of a Nero-Spock friendship when the dialogue in the film ("He called himself Nero") suggested they'd never met before their clash at the supernova site.

I've been following some of Orci's comments on TrekMovie lately, and frankly I think people take them far too literally and seriously. I think to some extent he just plays along with others' suggestions in a "Sure, why not, whatever you say" kind of manner, rather than issuing formal declarations of official policy.

They are not beigger contradicion's than the ones between the SW movies and the rest of SW. Mike Johnson said on Fictional Frontiers that they basically have a council coordinating things.
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Old June 2 2013, 09:27 AM   #35
Therin of Andor
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Also, is she Bajoran? Are the Bajorans the only wrinkle-nose aliens?
Maybe she's half K'Normian, rather than half-Bajoran? She simply inherited her Dad's human forehead (but hopefully not his hairline) and the nose ridges are a remnant of K'Normian genes?

The only known pic of a TMP K'Normian is:


K'normian from ST:TMP by Therin of Andor, on Flickr


K'Normian miniatures from Citadel by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; June 2 2013 at 09:46 AM. Reason: more pics
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Old June 2 2013, 01:24 PM   #36
Christopher
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Re: Abrams chronology and canon questions

JD wrote: View Post
Maybe this is one of the many changes brought about by the destruction of the Kelvin. I could see Starfleet exploring farther, and faster after the destruction of the Kelvin, and run into the Bajorans earlier.
Except we're talking about a civilian here. As stated, there's nothing precluding civilians from exploring too and maybe getting to a particular region of space before Starfleet manages to (since space is so darn big).


Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Also, is she Bajoran? Are the Bajorans the only wrinkle-nose aliens?
There are a few other races with similar nose-bridge features, like Ornarans, Brekkians, and Tandarans. But Mudd's particular nose ridges did look more Bajoran than anything else.


Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
An adult-ish daughter does seem unlikely but maybe Bajor's sun hyper-ages children with human DNA (like it did to Molly O'Brien when she was brought to DS9)...
Actually Molly's accelerated aging happened while she was still on the Enterprise. Hana Hatae debuted in the role in TNG: "Rascals," at a point when Molly should've been just over a year old but was suddenly old enough to form complete sentences. (The actress herself was 4 at the time, though Molly was said to be 3 in DS9: "The Nagus" later that same season.)
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