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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 6 2013, 04:16 AM   #31
Galactic Alignment
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
^I love the AGT uniform. It's pretty close to being my favorite Starfleet unform!
Well, IMO they might've been OK if the tunic was longer, the rank pins were on the collar, and they were made out of better material than didn't look so cheap! I do like the idea that post Dominion War, after the dust has settled, Starfleet dump the dark uniforms and go back to their tradition of brighter uniforms.
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Old June 6 2013, 06:34 AM   #32
Captain Verata
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
They were probably just a new design that was being phased in. As DS9 was a spanking-new Starfleet acquisition, they got started with the new uniforms. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
The problem with this idea is when anyone leaves the station, like the time Sisko went to Starfleet Command in "Paradise Lost", they would change into the regular uniform from TNG. Even O'Brien was seen wearing the new DS9 uniform then changed back into the TNG one when he went back to say goodbye to Picard on the Enterprise.
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Old June 6 2013, 06:52 AM   #33
Dukhat
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Andymator wrote: View Post
Well, all I can say is that I completely disagree with this sentiment. I'm happy they did the best they could to address the problem instead of just having the movie look crappy.
Using the crappy new uniforms wouldn't have made that movie any more crappy than it already was.

We saw space station personnel wearing TNG style uniforms in season 6's "Aquiel" after Deep Space Nine began.
That's easy enough to rectify. The subspace relay station was manned by a temporary two-man crew, probably for three months or so, before transferring to starship duty. So not being permanently attached to the station (like Worf wasn't until he accepted a permanent transfer to DS9), there was no need to switch duty uniforms.

It's not obvious at all. In fact the only evidence that points to that conclusion is the fact that we don't see them in use on starships until "Generations".
So what was the purpose in having them at all in DS9 then? Why didn't they just use the standard TNG uniform then if it wasn't a nod to having a station duty uniform instead of a starship duty uniform?

We also don't see them in use anywhere else until "Generations" except deep space nine, but it would be silly to think that following that logic they must only be in use on deep space nine and nowhere else.
Because as I said before, we never saw any other space station personnel other than DS9 while those uniforms were being used, with the exception of Relay Station 47, which I've given a hypothesis for. I don't find it silly at all, since it seems to me that the whole point of switching the uniforms was to delineate space station duty, as I said above.

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
They were probably just a new design that was being phased in. As DS9 was a spanking-new Starfleet acquisition, they got started with the new uniforms. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
But DS9 was originally just some backwater assignment, overseeing the new Bajoran provisional government out in the boonies. If it was a new across-the-board uniform that was being phased in, I'd think DS9 would have been the last place it would have started.

Captain Verata wrote: View Post
The problem with this idea is when anyone leaves the station, like the time Sisko went to Starfleet Command in "Paradise Lost", they would change into the regular uniform from TNG. Even O'Brien was seen wearing the new DS9 uniform then changed back into the TNG one when he went back to say goodbye to Picard on the Enterprise.
This is true.

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
^I love the AGT uniform. It's pretty close to being my favorite Starfleet unform!
Really? You like a uniform where the pants look like they're hiked right up to your armpits? You must be a senior citizen
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Old June 6 2013, 02:45 PM   #34
Kevman7987
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
I love the AGT uniform. It's pretty close to being my favorite Starfleet uniform!
I have to disagree with you there:

-The high waisted pants make them look like zoot suits.
-The red color for command is a magenta that looks weird as a full shirt.
-They look even more like pajamas than the TMP uniforms.

My favorite/the best uniforms are the ones from the new Trek reboots:

-Simple design
-Bright, primary colors.
-Expanded upon TOS design with more uniform options like a real military/exploratory service would have.
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Old June 6 2013, 03:26 PM   #35
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

The AGT uniforms are the worst. Bizarrely, they're almost idenical to the USS Kelvin uniforms, which looked fantastic. What a difference a bigger budget makes!
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Old June 6 2013, 03:37 PM   #36
Andymator
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Dukhat wrote: View Post

Using the crappy new uniforms wouldn't have made that movie any more crappy than it already was.
I didn't say that it would (not that I agree with your assessment of the film). I said that it would look crappy. Whatever you may think about the movie's story, it was visually impressive.

Dukhat wrote: View Post

That's easy enough to rectify. The subspace relay station was manned by a temporary two-man crew, probably for three months or so, before transferring to starship duty. So not being permanently attached to the station (like Worf wasn't until he accepted a permanent transfer to DS9), there was no need to switch duty uniforms.
You're jumping through hoops to explain away something that doesn't need explaining. They were assigned to a space station and wore TNG style uniforms.

Dukhat wrote: View Post

So what was the purpose in having them at all in DS9 then? Why didn't they just use the standard TNG uniform then if it wasn't a nod to having a station duty uniform instead of a starship duty uniform?
The purpose was to show that they are using a different uniform variant on deep space nine than they did on the Enterprise D at the time? Why does it have to be any more involved than that? And they aren't starship duty uniforms as you've designated them; they're used by all kinds of officers on planets, stations, and ships.

Dukhat wrote: View Post

Because as I said before, we never saw any other space station personnel other than DS9 while those uniforms were being used, with the exception of Relay Station 47, which I've given a hypothesis for. I don't find it silly at all, since it seems to me that the whole point of switching the uniforms was to delineate space station duty, as I said above.
You've imagined a whole scenario in your head where the deep space nine style uniform was exclusively associated with space stations despite not only evidence to the contrary at the time, but also knowledge we now have that they get used on several starships later on. Based on what?

Last edited by Andymator; June 6 2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old June 6 2013, 05:39 PM   #37
Third Nacelle
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

The simplest explanation would be that they were a new uniform being phased in to replace the TNG uniforms, at least for duty in space, and new commands got them first. That's why DS9 and Voyager got them before the Enterprise (Caretaker was 334 stardates before Generations).

But since a difference in uniforms was never really talked about on screen, we'll never know.
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Old June 6 2013, 08:50 PM   #38
Dukhat
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Andymator wrote: View Post
You've imagined a whole scenario in your head where the deep space nine style uniform was exclusively associated with space stations despite not only evidence to the contrary at the time, but also knowledge we now have that they get used on several starships later on. Based on what?
Based on the fact that they were referred to as such in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which was written by members of the show's production staff.

Look, if you don't think the DS9 uniforms were originally meant to be station uniforms, that's your outlook. But there's more evidence than not (to me anyway) that that's what they were supposed to be.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:11 PM   #39
Andymator
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
The simplest explanation would be that they were a new uniform being phased in to replace the TNG uniforms, at least for duty in space, and new commands got them first. That's why DS9 and Voyager got them before the Enterprise (Caretaker was 334 stardates before Generations).

But since a difference in uniforms was never really talked about on screen, we'll never know.
Well, the simplest explanation is really just that there are different kinds of uniforms, not that one is newer or being replaced or whatever.

The intent in Generations seemed like the Enterprise crew was gradually changing over to the deep space nine kind, but we saw many starfleet officers much later than Generations still using the TNG style.

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Based on the fact that they were referred to as such in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which was written by members of the show's production staff.
I have the Star Trek Encyclopedia, and it says nothing of the sort under deep space nine, space stations, or uniforms.

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Look, if you don't think the DS9 uniforms were originally meant to be station uniforms, that's your outlook. But there's more evidence than not (to me anyway) that that's what they were supposed to be.
Huh? How can there be different amounts of evidence for different people?

You claimed that the jumpsuits were clearly delineated on Deep Space Nine as the uniforms for space stations, and that just isn't the case.

Last edited by Andymator; June 6 2013 at 11:36 PM.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:35 PM   #40
Dukhat
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

Andymator wrote: View Post
I have the Star Trek Encyclopedia, and it says nothing of the sort under deep space nine, space stations, or uniforms.
Perhaps I misremembered; it might have been in the official Star Trek The Magazine publication.

Huh? How can there be different amounts of evidence for different people? You claimed that the jumpsuits were clearly delineated on Deep Space Nine as the uniforms for space stations, and that just isn't the case.
I believe it is. So I suppose we're just going to agree to disagree.
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Old June 7 2013, 12:05 PM   #41
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

We saw a ton of different uniforms in use at once in the big budget Treks - TMP, STXI and ID. Generations was just doing the same kind of thing, IMO.
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Old June 7 2013, 01:13 PM   #42
Blip
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

As I recall, the design change was made to reinforce the difference between the tone of the different series; ie that DS9 was a "down and dirty" environment whereas TNG was clean and orderly. We saw examples of this ideology during DS9 when personnel would switch to TNG uniforms when visiting places such as SFHQ.

IMO it makes perfect sense then that the crew of the Enterprise would have had these uniforms as an option. To my mind, we simply never saw them in use until Generations because there wasn't the budget for it during TNG.
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Old June 7 2013, 02:26 PM   #43
Lance
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

The "too many changes" excuse used by Berman et al always came across as being patently ridiculous to me. If anything the unused GEN uniforms are less of a contrast to the TV Next Gen uniforms than are the DS9 ones. I'll call BS on that one. I think Rick was just trying to save face after having blown part of the budget on uniform designs that he didn't end up liking very much.

I used to have quite the fascination with the unused GEN uniforms, I thought they looked okay on the action figures... but as time has passed I've gotten a bit meh about them. They seem a bit overwrought to me. The added features like the turnover flap and the rank braids take away from the simple elegance of the TV versions, and they certainly aren't as realistic and functional as the DS9/VOY/First Contact etc variants. Interesting in a "what might have been?" way, but I'm glad they didn't end up using them in that movie.

Am I misremembering, or did one of them turn up in modified form being worn by Janeway's dad in an episode of Voyager?
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Old June 7 2013, 05:36 PM   #44
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

ManOnTheWave wrote: View Post
Pretty cool. Have you seen this guy?
Wow!

Outstanding!
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Old June 7 2013, 11:54 PM   #45
Blip
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Re: Generations Concept Uniforms?

I think the concept Generations uniforms would have been better as the TNG uniform, minus the cuff rank stripes. Clearly some more thought was required on how the wraparound should be 'engineered' however.

Regarding the AGT uniforms: I'd have gone with something akin to the Generations concept, again minus rank braids, and with a slightly darker shade of the TNG dept colors. I'd also have replaced the black shoulder area with a (darker still) dept-colored suede material to make the shoulders 'pop'.

All that is assuming we hadn't had the FC black/grey uniforms introduced (which I prefer). For that matter, I'd also have pushed the medical dept color a littlemore towards green than blue, to differentiate them from the other sciences. YMMV of course...
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