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Gaming Non-Star Trek Gaming

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Old June 5 2013, 12:35 AM   #31
Davros
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Being a gamer used to involve reading lots of rule books and calculating combat odds. It also used to hold some social stigma.
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Old June 5 2013, 02:58 AM   #32
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
As an avid reader I am constantly frustrated by my 15 year olds lack of interest in reading while he will spend endless hours pointlessly blowing or hacking the crap out of things in any number of identikit video games. Its repetitive, its unimaginitive and its a waste. He has a very high IQ and is a high flier at school. If only he would give his imagination a chance...he is missing out on so much.

Answer your question ?

PS - back in the day I had a Mega drive and a PS1. I packed them away when I realised that I got really bored with repetetive gaming and didn't finish games - in fact 30 minutes was enough of most titles for me, whilst reading Lord of the Rings interested me for days....
So...you're ignorant and don't try to understand your son's way of thinking or that he enjoys different things? Sounds about right.

It's different, and therefore "weird" if you enjoy it a lot. Same reason people rag on comic nerds, star trek fans, you name it.
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Old June 5 2013, 04:54 AM   #33
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Because many of the benefits from video gaming can be seen in the rest of gaming (including board games and sports) but with lower resource costs.
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Old June 5 2013, 05:07 AM   #34
-Brett-
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

BennieGamali wrote: View Post
cray cray
Sorry, but you're going to have to go on the ignore list for this.

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
As an avid reader I am constantly frustrated by my 15 year olds lack of interest in reading while he will spend endless hours pointlessly blowing or hacking the crap out of things in any number of identikit video games. Its repetitive, its unimaginitive and its a waste. He has a very high IQ and is a high flier at school. If only he would give his imagination a chance...he is missing out on so much.

Answer your question ?
All you did was assert that his entertainment is inferior to yours for reasons that won't hold up under much scrutiny. No, I doubt it answered the OP's question.

Games, books, movies, it's still someone else's work. No imagination required.

Last edited by -Brett-; June 5 2013 at 05:51 AM.
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Old June 5 2013, 03:45 PM   #35
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
As an avid reader I am constantly frustrated by my 15 year olds lack of interest in reading while he will spend endless hours pointlessly blowing or hacking the crap out of things in any number of identikit video games. Its repetitive, its unimaginitive and its a waste. He has a very high IQ and is a high flier at school. If only he would give his imagination a chance...he is missing out on so much.

Answer your question ?

PS - back in the day I had a Mega drive and a PS1. I packed them away when I realised that I got really bored with repetetive gaming and didn't finish games - in fact 30 minutes was enough of most titles for me, whilst reading Lord of the Rings interested me for days....
This is one of the examples of Poe's Law where what is said is so absurd that I struggle to determine whether you're being sincere or sarcastic. If you're being sincere...

Firstly, gaming and reading are two different things that stimulate the brain in different ways, and the idea that you can't enjoy both is silly. I think you'll find that most of us here in this forum enjoy reading as well as gaming. But if your son just doesn't enjoy reading much then c'est la vie, it's not his thing. He's no more missing out on anything than I did by not playing rugby, and I'm glad that my father didn't badmouth me to others just because I didn't enjoy something he loved.

Secondofly, games do invite imagination. There's the obvious examples like Minecraft and Little Big Planet, two games which are all about player creativity, but even a good shooter encourages the player to play the game their own way. My experience with Far Cry 3 for example probably wouldn't be the same as yours because that was a game that encouraged the player to come up with their own strategies, and one which rewarded players for going off the beaten track and having their own adventures.

Third-diddly-irdly, games have evolved considerably since days of the PS1, and you don't seem to have kept with the times. Games like Red Dead Redemption are capable of presenting immersive worlds with great characters and emotional storylines. Mass Effect is a space opera which has arguably surpassed anything Hollywood has produced in that genre in the past decade. The Portal games are highly entertaining puzzle/comedy hybrids unlike anything that can be experienced in any other medium.

Just like the film industry, the music industry, and the publishing industry, the games industry produces plenty of crap aimed at the lowest common denominator. But writing off the whole medium for the reasons you've stated is as silly as condemning all music just because your son likes listening to the Black Eyed Peas.


ralfy wrote: View Post
Because many of the benefits from video gaming can be seen in the rest of gaming (including board games and sports) but with lower resource costs.
I can't experience visiting renaissance Florence and climbing the exterior of the basillica in a board game, nor can I experience the thrill of racing through the streets of New York while playing sport, nor can I experience the difficulty of commanding a fleet of 18th century naval vessels in real time by playing cards.
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Old June 5 2013, 06:49 PM   #36
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Civ001 wrote: View Post
I have noticed that there seems to be some kind of pity on people who play video games. People who don't play video games would often look down on those who do play video games and just see what we do as "pointless" or a "waste" of time. Why is there so much hatred on those who play video games? Why do non gamers look down on us and feel bad for us? Why do non gamers say so many mean things about gaming? I never see people hate on those who are obsessive about watching sports, or doing Fantasy Football, or reading.
Why? It's pretty much human nature to look down on people who do anything they personally disprove of. Not to mention if you're pointing a finger at other people then maybe people aren't looking at your short comings.
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Old June 5 2013, 08:09 PM   #37
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

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I can't experience visiting renaissance Florence and climbing the exterior of the basillica in a board game, nor can I experience the thrill of racing through the streets of New York while playing sport, nor can I experience the difficulty of commanding a fleet of 18th century naval vessels in real time by playing cards.
You can do them through board games, books, 3D movies, and simulations, which are not necessarily the same as video games.

As for "imagination," it should be noted that several of those who developed video games which depict these examples did so without necessarily resorting to video games. That's something for you to consider.
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Old June 5 2013, 09:52 PM   #38
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

ralfy wrote: View Post
TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I can't experience visiting renaissance Florence and climbing the exterior of the basillica in a board game, nor can I experience the thrill of racing through the streets of New York while playing sport, nor can I experience the difficulty of commanding a fleet of 18th century naval vessels in real time by playing cards.
You can do them through board games, books, 3D movies...
No, you can't. Video games are interactive, so that rules out books and movies as they're linear. As for board games, they're fun, but that game of Pandemic I played last night has absolutely no relation to that game of Grand Theft Auto 4 I just wrapped up. The thrill of that parachute/boat/car race I took part in isn't something a board game can replicate.

...and simulations, which are not necessarily the same as video games.

As for "imagination," it should be noted that several of those who developed video games which depict these examples did so without necessarily resorting to video games. That's something for you to consider.
Your interpretation of what a video game is is very narrow and not at all in line with what they currently are. Simulation is very much an element of video games and has become increasingly important over the last decade as games attempt to become more immersive. Open world sandbox games are some of the most popular around because of the freedom they give they player to have fun in a simulated world. Whether you get your kicks from the historical tourism in the Assassin's Creed games, or from tethering two jetliners together in Just Cause 2 just to see what happens, they're still video games. They're not something that any other form of entertainment can really replicate, and they'll continue to improve as our technology does.
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Old June 5 2013, 10:01 PM   #39
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

I have had table top RPG experiences far more rewarding and exciting than anything I've gotten from a computer RPG.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:19 PM   #40
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

TheGodBen... I just wanted to give you a thumbs up. You've pinpointed exactly why video games is my preferred media form over all others. Every now and then I like to curl up with a good book, but since I've gotten into video games, I don't watch much TV and movies anymore.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:34 PM   #41
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Well, I'm glad my post stirred the pot somewhat - I thought it would. Its certainly livened things up ! I wasn't trolling, it is a representation of my feelings to some extent but exaggerated a little.

I agree with the comment about tabletop RPG's - I've had much more fun with them !

You might be surprised at how familiar I am with modern games - I take an interest and buy most of my son's games. I really do think the Portal games are impressive. Far Cry 3 is a recent buy and yes, there is some depth there, but there is also a lot of repetition (nobbling radio towers for instance), and fairly by the numbers collecting wealth to buy bigger guns. Theres certainly more to it than the shooters packing the shelves. Destiny looks as if it might be interesting in the not too distant future.

Yes, a good chunk of my attitude is good old fashioned prejudice, but I really do find gaming dull. Obviously many don't, and it wouldn't do for us all to like the same things. Purely from a financial perspective, games are the future.

My sons a good guy - he's bright and a nice person (teenager-itis notwithstanding) and gaming isn't turning him into a moron or a thug. I'd just like him to be a bit more rounded...
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Last edited by Relayer1; June 6 2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old June 6 2013, 04:57 AM   #42
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

This topic has certainly take a strange and unexpected turn right off a cliff. Interesting.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:30 AM   #43
ralfy
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
No, you can't. Video games are interactive, so that rules out books and movies as they're linear. As for board games, they're fun, but that game of Pandemic I played last night has absolutely no relation to that game of Grand Theft Auto 4 I just wrapped up. The thrill of that parachute/boat/car race I took part in isn't something a board game can replicate.
Yes, you can. Books and movies aren't "linear" in the sense that you can go back to particular chapters and scenes, talk to others about them, create other works of art based on them, etc. There's your interactivity. Believe it or not, it has been taking place for decades. In fact, books and movies themselves are a result of that same imagination.

The same goes for board games, not to mention war games, which have existed for centuries.

Finally, if what you are looking for is "thrill," then nothing beats the real thing. But if you want to find meaning in that "thrill," then you don't need video games.

Your interpretation of what a video game is is very narrow and not at all in line with what they currently are. Simulation is very much an element of video games and has become increasingly important over the last decade as games attempt to become more immersive. Open world sandbox games are some of the most popular around because of the freedom they give they player to have fun in a simulated world. Whether you get your kicks from the historical tourism in the Assassin's Creed games, or from tethering two jetliners together in Just Cause 2 just to see what happens, they're still video games. They're not something that any other form of entertainment can really replicate, and they'll continue to improve as our technology does.
No, simulation is not "very much an element of video games," as the latter includes even interactive fiction.

The problem is that your definition of video games is so narrow you don't even include games that involve little or no graphics.
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Old June 6 2013, 01:35 PM   #44
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

-Brett- wrote: View Post
BennieGamali wrote: View Post
cray cray
Sorry, but you're going to have to go on the ignore list for this.
Not a problem.

In any case. I've never enjoyed tabletop games. Except when I was little. I prefer playing alone. I would play solitary for hours. Not sure I agree that you're not a gamer unless you play tabletop games though. But that might be because i have never heard the word "gamer" until a few years ago and it's always been related to computer games.

Back when I played WoW I was a roleplayer, we used to call "gamers" lolboys back then. So we bashed gamers I gues. But the thing was that "lolboys" were terrifically annoying. They would always trash events or just try to ruin RP or whisper insults at roleplayers. I wouldn't say all gamers are lolboys, but all lolboys are gamers.. or at least most of them.
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Old June 6 2013, 01:53 PM   #45
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Re: Why do non gamers bash gamers?

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.
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