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Old June 4 2013, 03:33 AM   #121
Zameaze
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

teacake wrote: View Post
Sexism is unfair discrimination based on a person's sex.
I Refute you thus!

teacake wrote:
It is not unfair that a man cannot give birth, this is not sexism.
Well, of course not. Where did that come from? You should at least read and understand a post before responding to it.
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Old June 4 2013, 03:56 AM   #122
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
Men and women's brain structures are different. They have different hormonal levels. Men are better at some things (e.g., spatial tasks), women are better than men at other things (e.g., color perception).
On average.

The statistical male is better at spatial tasks than the statistical female. Saying that is not sexist. But refusing to hire the outlying woman who is spectacular at spatial tasks for a spatial task is very sexist.

That's what sexism is, judging and limiting individuals from a group based on the perceived average tendencies of the group.
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Old June 4 2013, 04:00 AM   #123
teacake
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Sexism is unfair discrimination based on a person's sex.
I Refute you thus!

teacake wrote:
It is not unfair that a man cannot give birth, this is not sexism.
Well, of course not. Where did that come from? You should at least read and understand a post before responding to it.
You mean your post about how choosing a man to fertilize your eggs rather than a woman is sexist?

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Old June 4 2013, 04:59 AM   #124
Zameaze
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

teacake wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Sexism is unfair discrimination based on a person's sex.
I Refute you thus!

teacake wrote:
It is not unfair that a man cannot give birth, this is not sexism.
Well, of course not. Where did that come from? You should at least read and understand a post before responding to it.
You mean your post about how choosing a man to fertilize your eggs rather than a woman is sexist?

I said read and understand. I was hoping you could extrapolate from the extreme example I gave. Let me try again.

You are in a forest, and certain shades of red berries are poisonous. You have one group of men and one group of women, and all you know about them is what you see. Would you pick one of the women for berry detail, or one of the men? Or maybe you would use some other attribute to choose(e.g., height).

If you picked a woman, you're more likely to live. But if you picked her because of he sex (maybe knowing that women perceive color better than men) you are a sexist. You have discriminated for her based on her sex.
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Old June 4 2013, 06:02 AM   #125
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

How is that any different than asking Worf to move the log off your crushed legs than asking Keiko to do it? Assuming these berries were so subtle in color that a quick run through of your team as to which ones to pick had shown you that the women picked better.
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Old June 4 2013, 06:16 AM   #126
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

That's not sexism.

Sexism is when you ignore a superior candidate, with superior skills in favour of an inferior candidate with inferior skills because their gender is preferred... Or sexism is when you chose to abuse or penalize some one with indeterminate skills because their gender is unappealing.

Your examples are creating a situation where gender is the only differing factor between absolutely equal candidates, or gender biology disqualifies one gender from whatever vetting process is being put to task.

Vulcans are 5 times stronger, 3 times faster and ten times smarter.

There shouldn't be any humans, male or female in Starfleet whatsoever.

Besides remember the Thunderdome entrance exam to Starfleet Academy?

5 kids beat the shit out of each other until one is left standing.

Humans pitted against Vulcans would cry foul as loudly as Vulcans might sook about how unfair it is that they might have to do anything else than easily humiliate 4 puny humans.

In such situations, I think the humans to be fair must draw straws to see who gets to go through, and who the other three contestants are that are to stumble and cock block the Vulcan from an easy victory.
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Old June 4 2013, 01:25 PM   #127
Brit
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
You are in a forest, and certain shades of red berries are poisonous. You have one group of men and one group of women, and all you know about them is what you see. Would you pick one of the women for berry detail, or one of the men? Or maybe you would use some other attribute to choose(e.g., height).

If you picked a woman, you're more likely to live. But if you picked her because of he sex (maybe knowing that women perceive color better than men) you are a sexist. You have discriminated for her based on her sex.
The only way this choice could be sexist is: 1. if you chose a man knowing that the woman's choice would be better, or 2 if you never chose a woman because berry picking had been designated "men's work," so women never got the chance to prove they could do it and do it better.

And finally it is not reverse discrimination to force the men to allow women to choose berries - making someone share a privilege isn't discrimination, and all of this is assuming that berry picking was a high paying job.
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Old June 5 2013, 03:51 AM   #128
Zameaze
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

teacake wrote:
How is that any different than asking Worf to move the log off your crushed legs than asking Keiko to do it?
A better question is, how are they the same?

teacake wrote:
Assuming these berries were so subtle in color that a quick run through of your team as to which ones to pick had shown you that the women picked better.
No, you are ignoring the parameters of our little thought experiment. All you know is their physical attributes by looking at them, and that one group is men and the other women. No testing them first: You have to rely on your wits.

Also, I'm a little surprised that you don't know that women are better at discriminating among colors. Click here to learn a little about it!

Guy Gardener wrote:
That's not sexism.

Sexism is when you ignore a superior candidate, with superior skills in favour of an inferior candidate with
inferior skills because their gender is preferred...
You can't just make up your own definition for 'sexism' and argue from there. Click here to expand your knowledge of 'sexism'!



Guy Gardener wrote:

Your examples are creating a situation where gender is the only differing factor between absolutely equal candidates...
Vulcans are 5 times stronger, 3 times faster and ten times smarter.

Nice try, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You started this discussion by setting the parameters, and I quote, "There is no human on human sexism."
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Old June 5 2013, 04:18 AM   #129
teya
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post

I Refute you thus!



Well, of course not. Where did that come from? You should at least read and understand a post before responding to it.
You mean your post about how choosing a man to fertilize your eggs rather than a woman is sexist?

I said read and understand. I was hoping you could extrapolate from the extreme example I gave. Let me try again.

You are in a forest, and certain shades of red berries are poisonous. You have one group of men and one group of women, and all you know about them is what you see. Would you pick one of the women for berry detail, or one of the men? Or maybe you would use some other attribute to choose(e.g., height).

If you picked a woman, you're more likely to live. But if you picked her because of he sex (maybe knowing that women perceive color better than men) you are a sexist. You have discriminated for her based on her sex.
If you wanted to live you'd pick me, because I've been tested to have perfect color perception. It's kind of like perfect pitch, but with color.

Or, if you're Janeway, you pick Seven, because even if she doesn't have natural ability, she has a Borg eye.
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Old June 5 2013, 04:19 AM   #130
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Dude.

That study is almost four hundred years out of date!

You might as well be trying to apply the legal code from the 17th century to our comings and goings today.

It's really careless of you to be so backward and fall behind the times.

Maybe you need to take a refresher course accepting a more modern take on the subject?
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; June 5 2013 at 07:36 AM.
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Old June 5 2013, 07:27 AM   #131
teacake
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I love to be refreshed. This is under a waterfall, right?
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Old June 5 2013, 07:37 AM   #132
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

A powershower like Cumberpatch had in the deleted scene.
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Old June 5 2013, 08:58 AM   #133
teacake
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Well if CumbyBatchy is going to be in it I'll have to step out.
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Old June 5 2013, 09:17 AM   #134
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

He was a rather good killing machine, but I don't think he altogether brought the sexy to JJ's party.
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Old June 5 2013, 09:22 AM   #135
teacake
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

:: shoves NuSpock into the shower ::
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