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Old June 2 2013, 10:57 AM   #91
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

What's better... Marshmallow stuffed Tofu or Tofu stuffed marshmallow?
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Old June 2 2013, 10:59 AM   #92
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I've eaten a lot of tofu desserts so I can picture them stuffed with marshmallow. Asian desserts, not nutritionist desserts. So therefore, delicious.
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Old June 2 2013, 11:55 AM   #93
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I did not know that you were not fucking with me, unless you are still fucking with me.

Tofu for pudding?

This is because of vegans shying away from eggs and gelatin I suspect.

Are we ready to forgive Brandon Routh yet?

Because that stuff about all Vegans having telekenetic powers is hilarious.

Although... Is it possible that Russel Crowe has put Brando's Napoleon complex in the corner?
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Old June 2 2013, 12:05 PM   #94
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I know you won't believe me but when Asians do it it is not like when Vegans do it. It is good.

Here's some pictures:

http://www.dessertstory.co/products/...udding-series/

It's like custard, only smoother and lovelier. Unfortunately tofu came to the west via hippies so for many decades it was horrible. Once you get out from behind the Moosewood curtain a whole lot of ingredients come into their own, because they are made into things people eat for taste rather than for vitamins.
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Old June 2 2013, 12:22 PM   #95
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I want one of those dishes almost more than I want Justine Bateman.
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Old June 2 2013, 01:28 PM   #96
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

I could post something about bathtubs but perhaps not.
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Old June 2 2013, 02:02 PM   #97
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Bathtubs full of tofu or bathtubs full of Justine?

Justine bathing in Tofu?

(Earlier this evening, I was watching a Romcom called "The Night We Never Met.)
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Old June 2 2013, 08:42 PM   #98
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Dream wrote: View Post
Janeway killed Tuvix.
1. Tuvix become a member of the crew, and was given the rank of Lieutenant, nonetheless, Janeway decided it was best to murder him.

2. Janeway doesn't have the right to murder Tuvix, because Tuvix chose to live, and as a rational and sentient being, had the right to life.

3. The Doctor refuses to perform the procedure as it is a violation of the Hippocratic oath and his ethical programming given him by Starfleet. The Doctor knows that this is murder.

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Old June 2 2013, 10:00 PM   #99
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Janeway killed Tuvix.
1. Tuvix become a member of the crew, and was given the rank of Lieutenant, nonetheless, Janeway decided it was best to murder him.

2. Janeway doesn't have the right to murder Tuvix, because Tuvix chose to live, and as a rational and sentient being, had the right to life.

3. The Doctor refuses to perform the procedure as it is a violation of the Hippocratic oath and his ethical programming given him by Starfleet. The Doctor knows that this is murder.
1. So were Tuvok and Neelix, in fact the case can be made that Tuvok outranked Tuvix.

2. Appearently she does have the right to make that decision, because we do not see Starfleet chastising her for it either, what we know for sure is that she is promoted when they get back. I believe both Neelix and Tuvok chose to live too (you don't see them offering to return to that combined state do you.) And just because Tuvix says he is sentient doesn't make it so but just incase he is, Tuvok and Neelix are sentient too and for all we know are screaming to get out of Tuvix.

3. The Doctor has a lot of knowledge all programed into him, and most likely a lot of conflicting knowledge. His decision was pretty immature IMHO, but that would fit because you see the doctor for all his knowledge is very young. My question about him is of course his own sentience. We know for sure he is not at the beginning of the Series, and probably sentient at the ending but have no idea when that connection was made.

What ever the case Tuvix had no legal claim on the bodies of Neelix or Tuvok dead or alive. He stole them and he needed to give them back.

I guess you "Equinox" plan to discredit Janeway pretty much failed, so there is no where else to go.
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Old June 2 2013, 11:44 PM   #100
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Tuvix is a better argument than Equinox. If killing one person to save two people is okay then so is experimenting drugs on gypsys without their knowledge.

As for tofu. I dunno, there are plenty of vegan foods that have protein but also taste like something. Just say no, kids!
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Old June 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #101
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Brit wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Janeway killed Tuvix.
1. Tuvix become a member of the crew, and was given the rank of Lieutenant, nonetheless, Janeway decided it was best to murder him.

2. Janeway doesn't have the right to murder Tuvix, because Tuvix chose to live, and as a rational and sentient being, had the right to life.

3. The Doctor refuses to perform the procedure as it is a violation of the Hippocratic oath and his ethical programming given him by Starfleet. The Doctor knows that this is murder.
1. So were Tuvok and Neelix, in fact the case can be made that Tuvok outranked Tuvix.
I'm not understanding your point. I was establishing that he was indeed a crew member and was even given a rank, therefore he should have the rights of any other crew member. Maybe you can elaborate on your point.

Brit wrote:
2. Appearently she does have the right to make that decision, because we do not see Starfleet chastising her for it either, what we know for sure is that she is promoted when they get back.
What Starfleet does or does not do, of course, doesn't change the morality of the issue.

Brit wrote:
I believe both Neelix and Tuvok chose to live too....
They couldn't choose to live, they weren't there. Janeway assumes Tuvok's and Neelix's desire without evidence. We could well imagine Tuvok arguing that Tuvix combined the abilities of both crew members, but would only require the resources and living space of one crew member, so, logically, he was far more efficient and useful than Tuvok and Neelix as separate beings. We could see Neelix arguing that he liked to be a dynamic duo with Tuvok, all squished into one. They well might have said nothing of the kind. The point is Janeway doesn't know and acts on emotion, not evidence, to murder Tuvix.

Brit wrote:
3. The Doctor has a lot of knowledge all programed into him, and most likely a lot of conflicting knowledge. His decision was pretty immature IMHO....
Ethical programming given him by Starfleet.

Brit, a question, now answer honestly, "Would you have given Tuvix due process?" Remember, he had committed no crime, and had expressed a clear desire to live.
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Old June 3 2013, 12:02 AM   #102
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Ethical programming he's allowed to jigger himself to follow his whims, as well as any other bugger, who can even remove it without any authorization like Ransom did.
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Old June 3 2013, 12:48 AM   #103
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Ethical programming he's allowed to jigger himself to follow his whims, as well as any other bugger, who can even remove it without any authorization like Ransom did.
You can't have it both ways, Guy--you can take the Doctor with ethical programming, or the bipolar lady yelling, "Off with their heads, Off with their heads!!"

Well, there is another alternative, but...no, it's probably too extreme....maybe due process?
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Old June 3 2013, 12:54 AM   #104
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

My clouded point was that Janeway did not have the foresight to fix and abridge the doctor's ethical programming before she did a very bad thing.
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Old June 3 2013, 01:56 AM   #105
Zameaze
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
My clouded point was that Janeway did not have the foresight to fix and abridge the doctor's ethical programming before she did a very bad thing.
Yes, a couple of episodes of MacGyver on the holodeck, and she would have known how to make the Doctor into her own Dalek.
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