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Old May 30 2013, 03:49 PM   #16
Dream
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Janeway killed Tuvix.
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Old May 30 2013, 04:16 PM   #17
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

That was self-defence.

(Pre-meditated self-defence.)
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Old May 30 2013, 05:41 PM   #18
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Are women not allowed to lie?
Leave it to Guy to try to spice things up by making this a women's lib issue rather than a competency and morality issue.

eskyliz wrote: View Post
Oh come on! You're judging her whole career throughout the whole series on one episode when she did questionable things.
OK, let's go on to another episode. In "Scorpion" Janeway is in trouble so she offers the Borg a way to defeat their enemy. She thinks it will be all better if she gives some really, really advanced technology to starfleet's worst enemy.
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Old May 30 2013, 07:02 PM   #19
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Feh! Janeway was correct in The Swarm; Equinox; Tuvix; Scorpion; Prey, and Memorial. All arguments to the contrary have been decisively exploded, except for Tuvix. But there is no "correct" decision possible for the Tuvix dilemma, given the crazy premises, so there can't be a wrong one either.

The conclusion that Janeway was crazy and a bad captain needs new arguments, since the old ones are so pathetic. Feeling generous today, I'll proffer a few suggestions?

Janeway was too humane in Parallax in saving the space amoeba. Worse, she was too favorable to Torres, who assaulted a crew mate for no good reason, just because she liked Torres' enthusiasm and quickness.

Janeway should taken control of the craziness in Blood Fever instead of letting Paris condescend to save Torres from a fate worse than death.

Janeway should have locked up Chakotay to save him from Seska. The script wrote in a save but plainly, on his own, Chakotay would have been changing diapers and washing her dishes for the rest of his life.

Janeway should have told Torres to get the hell out of sick bay in Barge of the Dead. Letting subordinates trip out on near death experiences!?!

Janeway should have reprogrammed the Doctor in Nothing Human (or was it, Only Human?) Time heals people, not computer programs. I know, I've tried it with my OS. And she should have pulled the plug on Crell Moset herself.

Janeway shouldn't have turned over the alien for execution. The Doctor found and cured the physical cause of mental illness.

Janeway should have bonked whozis in Counterpoint till he never had a chance to think straight.

Janeway should have put Torres into therapy, both during her supposed bout of depression (the one Chakotay slapped her out of,) and during the mad scheme to whiten her baby in seventh season. And put Chakotay in the brig for assaulting Torres.

Janeway shouldn't have been all weepy over Kim in Muse, since she hardly even spoke to him. And she should've demoted Torres for breaking the PD just because she wanted to help the guy finish his play.

Janeway should've checked the damn cargo in Nightingale, instead of letting a young officer fly off, especially when he'd already been emotionally invested in the aliens. This was grossly irresponsible.

Janeway shouldn't have punished Kim the way she did, but since she had, she shouldn't have let him yell at her on the bridge in The Disease. Again, she's his mother figure, he's not her surrogate son. There is no sibling rivalry between Seven and Kim. And there's no hint of incest baring 7/Kim

Janeway/Seven of Nine? Most guys seem to enjoy lesbianism if the women end up settling for second best. But Janeway never did settle, did she? Gotta hate her for that, right, guys?
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Old May 30 2013, 09:25 PM   #20
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

[QUOTE=Zameaze;8176663]
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
OK, let's go on to another episode. In "Scorpion" Janeway is in trouble so she offers the Borg a way to defeat their enemy. She thinks it will be all better if she gives some really, really advanced technology to starfleet's worst enemy.
Well it seemed to turn out fine in the end didn't it? And they got Seven out of it all which is a huge plus seeing as how they probably could not have reached Earth without her.

But since you seem to think that decision was a mistake, let me say this. All captains, whether you think them awful or not, make mistakes. No question about it. Janeway reached home with her crew still alive and her ship still intact and I'd say that's a pretty huge accomplishment.

She made a few questionable decisions. Kind of like every other captain. She made a few mistakes. Just like every other captain. But she got home. So yes, she did make mistakes (although I still don't think what you mentioned was one of them) but you're forgetting everything she did right.
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Old May 30 2013, 10:18 PM   #21
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

eskyliz wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
OK, let's go on to another episode. In "Scorpion" Janeway is in trouble so she offers the Borg a way to defeat their enemy. She thinks it will be all better if she gives some really, really advanced technology to starfleet's worst enemy.
Well it seemed to turn out fine in the end didn't it? And they got Seven out of it all which is a huge plus....
Not for Janeway it wasn't: Janeway always looked like a sack of laundry when standing next to Seven! If Janeway were to come out on top in the last episode, she would have had to blind Chakotay.
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Old May 30 2013, 11:31 PM   #22
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
eskyliz wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
OK, let's go on to another episode. In "Scorpion" Janeway is in trouble so she offers the Borg a way to defeat their enemy. She thinks it will be all better if she gives some really, really advanced technology to starfleet's worst enemy.
Well it seemed to turn out fine in the end didn't it? And they got Seven out of it all which is a huge plus....
Not for Janeway it wasn't: Janeway always looked like a sack of laundry when standing next to Seven! If Janeway were to come out on top in the last episode, she would have had to blind Chakotay.
At least Janeway wasn't the one wearing a girdle. In fact she wouldn't wear the dreaded "Star Trek Bra" but that is another story.
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Old May 30 2013, 11:56 PM   #23
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Brit wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post
eskyliz wrote: View Post

Well it seemed to turn out fine in the end didn't it? And they got Seven out of it all which is a huge plus....
Not for Janeway it wasn't: Janeway always looked like a sack of laundry when standing next to Seven! If Janeway were to come out on top in the last episode, she would have had to blind Chakotay.
At least Janeway wasn't the one wearing a girdle. In fact she wouldn't wear the dreaded "Star Trek Bra" but that is another story.
But that's obvious--like I said, Janeway looked like a sack of potatoes next to Seven. No matter what she wore she wasn't going to be any competition for Seven, but couldn't she have at least tried? For the series? When Braga told Kate Mulgrew she needed to wear a push-up bra, maybe she should have listened.
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Old May 31 2013, 12:45 AM   #24
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post

Not for Janeway it wasn't: Janeway always looked like a sack of laundry when standing next to Seven! If Janeway were to come out on top in the last episode, she would have had to blind Chakotay.
At least Janeway wasn't the one wearing a girdle. In fact she wouldn't wear the dreaded "Star Trek Bra" but that is another story.
But that's obvious--like I said, Janeway looked like a sack of potatoes next to Seven. No matter what she wore she wasn't going to be any competition for Seven, but couldn't she have at least tried? For the series? When Braga told Kate Mulgrew she needed to wear a push-up bra, maybe she should have listened.
Yes it should have been a ship of Barbies. Women should all push their titties up to look good for you.
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Old May 31 2013, 02:02 AM   #25
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

teacake wrote: View Post
Zameaze wrote: View Post
Brit wrote: View Post

At least Janeway wasn't the one wearing a girdle. In fact she wouldn't wear the dreaded "Star Trek Bra" but that is another story.
But that's obvious--like I said, Janeway looked like a sack of potatoes next to Seven. No matter what she wore she wasn't going to be any competition for Seven, but couldn't she have at least tried? For the series? When Braga told Kate Mulgrew she needed to wear a push-up bra, maybe she should have listened.
Yes it should have been a ship of Barbies. Women should all push their titties up to look good for you.
Well, that would be nice, too. But actually they should look good for the audience. After the addition of Jeri Ryan's Seven to the crew at the start of the fourth season, the shows' weekly viewer ratings increased by more than 60%.
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Old May 31 2013, 02:32 AM   #26
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

No it didn't.

The massive Borg episode got incredible numbers, and then the following weeks went back to the same slow steady decline towards Zero viewers, until 7 years later when they cancelled Enterprise.

http://www.madmind.de/wp-content/upl...lsenrating.jpg

or

http://www.madmind.de/wp-content/upl...ngaverage2.jpg

(They used to have the date along the x-axis, but not any more. Bugger. You can work it out.)
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Old May 31 2013, 02:43 AM   #27
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Methinks the woman doth protest too much.

You are afraid and resent how much you're drawn to that monkey.
hahahaha! made me think of this

http://trekcore.com/gallery/albums/w...genesis254.jpg
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Old May 31 2013, 02:49 AM   #28
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Yes it did, Guy.
According to Hanania, Joseph (February 7, 1999). "Signoff: Intergalactic Generation Gap," The New York Times, Voyager's weekly viewer ratings increased by more than 60% after the addition of Jeri Ryan's Seven to the crew.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:06 AM   #29
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Interview by TrekMovie.com Staff from January 20, 2011

How hard was it for you, personally, when, in the middle of the show’s run, Jeri Ryan arrived on the set to play Seven of Nine?

Mulgrew: I found that that was hard....So I resented that and I was hurt by the immediate, extraordinary attention given to this character. The numbers went up. And I thought, “Ah, you can’t argue with a business decision and you can’t argue with sex.” That’s just part of life, but all of that is very difficult for a woman, particularly an actress like me.



The New York Times
SIGNOFF; Intergalactic Generation Gap
By JOSEPH HANANIA

Published: February 07, 1999

When Jeri Ryan joined the cast of ''Star Trek: Voyager'' in its third season, in the fall of 1997, ratings soared 60 percent. They have since remained up, though not at that lofty level, said Rick Berman, an executive producer of the show
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Old May 31 2013, 04:11 AM   #30
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Nielson ratings are calculated from a sampling of viewers and is the only indicator they have which suggests what their actual viewing numbers are... Are you claiming the graph or the actual numbers I supplied/found are fraudulent?

Regardless...Television universe estimated at 95.4 million households; therefore one rating point is equivalent to 954,000 TV homes.

Now either that person you're quoting was lying or they shaped their answer, to maybe have said something like "males between 19 and 35" increased by 60 percent, or they're talking about a much smaller time frame than you expect.

Although a bump of 60 percent, is from a Nielson of 4 to 7, which almost looked like that did happen if I found the right place in the line graph, but really it looks like a jump from 4 and a 1/2 to 6.

There's probably a better graph of Voyager's Nielson's out there, or even actual table

http://users.telenet.be/WebTrek/Voy/...s/ratings.html

Worst case scenario got a 4.0, Scorpion 1 got a 5.6 which is a 40 percent bump. Scorpion II was 6.5 which is a %63 bump from Worst Case Scenario, but there's only a 16 percent bump between Scorpion I and 2 after a massive hiatus and huge word of mouth and many reruns... The Gift However is 5.6, which means that lost that %16 in a fraction of the time it took them to generate it, and day of Honour was 4.5 which is a 30 percent decline from Scorpion two... And then their ratings just criss crosses across either side of 4 for the rest of the season almost perilously close to 2.9 with Vis a Vis half way though the season.

Scorpion was an event.

Borg.

Big Numbers.

Jeri was there too.

It didn't last.

Week to week, her Borginess may have slowed the decline, but she didn't bring in TNG numbers which was double and/or triple what Voyager was pulling. She may have made the show more entertaining for the few in the world who were watching it, but Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine was not generating and keeping new viewers.

It's a line graph.

The line is going down.

Not up.

If it's going up some is saving the show.

If it's holding steady, some one is still going to get fired.

If it's going down, the show is dying and every one gets fired.

Voyager still did mostly do double Enterprises Numbers.

Fan fatigue.
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