RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,157
Posts: 5,402,287
Members: 24,750
Currently online: 500
Newest member: yadmank

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science and Technology

Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 24 2013, 11:10 AM   #1
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Sand in the Vaseline
Look out Einstein, here comes Weinstein

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...ysics-problems

Eric Weinstein may have found the answer to physics' biggest problems

A physicist has formulated a mathematical theory that purports to explain why the universe works the way it does – and it feels like 'the answer'
I'd like to see a lot more details, but if Weinstein's theory makes testable predictions (which String Theory struggles to do), it seems worthy of consideration. From what I gather, the theory relies on symmetry breaking of a 14-dimensional space into our 4-D space-time and a 10-D realm that is largely hidden from our view. According to Marcus du Sautoy, lots of stuff drops out naturally from the theory -- three generations of particles in the standard model, dark energy, and an explanation of why particles have mass that doesn't seem like an arbitrary add-on like the Higgs field does. Now, if only, it could predict the particle masses, that would indeed be a coup.

ETA: I've seen some comments online denigrating Weinstein because he's currently a quant for a hedge fund rather than an established academic. It could be worse -- he could have been a patent examiner.
__________________
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock -- Flip flap!

Last edited by Asbo Zaprudder; May 24 2013 at 03:17 PM.
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2013, 03:44 PM   #2
Shatnertage
Rear Admiral
 
Shatnertage's Avatar
 
Location: Ward Fowler's gofer.
View Shatnertage's Twitter Profile
Re: Look out Einstein, here comes Weinstein

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post

ETA: I've seen some comments online denigrating Weinstein because he's currently a quant for a hedge fund rather than an established academic. It could be worse -- he could have been a patent examiner.
__________________
I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw
Shatnertage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2013, 04:24 PM   #3
YellowSubmarine
Commodore
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

A general note not regarding this mathematical theory in particular: It should be impossible to discover why the universe works the way it does. There should be some fundamental laws that are not caused by other laws, and therefore unexplainable by definition (or rather, they are probably explainable but the explanations would be untestable and not unique). It is possible that the complicated jumble that we have discovered so far are these fundamental laws and we can't dig deeper. This new theory would work if it explains more, or it explains the same with a simpler set of laws – the problem with string theory is that it is both more complicated and doesn't predict anything additional to what we already know.

On the other hand, even things like string theory that would appear to be completely futile in the scientific sense they might contain the key to why the universe works the way it does, only the results they give would remain untestable, so this is interesting even if it goes nowhere.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)

Last edited by YellowSubmarine; May 24 2013 at 04:46 PM.
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2013, 04:35 PM   #4
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

Any arxiv paper yet - or summary of the presentation, at least?

We will find out soon enough if this geometric unity conjecture is worth something.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2013, 12:35 PM   #5
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Sand in the Vaseline
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

Weinstein gave his presentation in Oxford the other day -- unfortunately, they didn't seem to have invited any physicists.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...y-nothing.html
__________________
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2013, 05:42 PM   #6
Metryq
Captain
 
Metryq's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

__________________
"No, I better not look. I just might be in there."
—Foghorn Leghorn, Little Boy Boo
Metryq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 02:45 PM   #7
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Sand in the Vaseline
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

Nothing on arXiv yet -- that is the main criticism, not that he isn't an established academic.

http://blog.richmond.edu/physicsbunn/2013/05/27/728/

All we have so far are vague descriptions.
__________________
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2013, 09:58 PM   #8
PurpleBuddha
Rear Admiral
 
PurpleBuddha's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
...It should be impossible to discover why... There should be some...
How could you possibly know this? Nice conjecture, but that is all it is.
PurpleBuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2013, 10:08 PM   #9
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

It's bad form to make announcements of scientific importance directly to the media.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 09:09 AM   #10
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Sand in the Vaseline
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

Yes, remember Cold Fusion.
__________________
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 11:01 AM   #11
YellowSubmarine
Commodore
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
...It should be impossible to discover why... There should be some...
How could you possibly know this? Nice conjecture, but that is all it is.
My reasoning was in the next sentence. It follows from the definition of fundamental. To avoid infinite regress, you need something, some foundation, that's not caused by anything else, and by definition that something will be impossible to explain because it is not a result of something to be explained. You would no doubt have some kind of explanation for it, but it would be an unprovable conjecture at best. You can't prove the axioms.

We presently have a set of fundamental laws in physics. If any of them are really fundamental for the universe, you wouldn't be able to break them or combine them into simpler and/or fewer components that they step on. There would still be one obvious explanation that's quite popular nowadays – there are an infinite set of universes, and each set of fundamental laws you can imagine exists somewhere, and our laws are a result of some sort of cosmic darwinism (universes without sentient lifeforms would not observe themselves into existence). If you can't travel between these purely hypothetical universes though, you'd be stuck with exactly this kind of unprovable conjecture. If you can, you'd end up with a new set of fundamental laws of the multiverse that govern your ability to travel between them and the same problem, and a different kind of unprovable conjecture.

There's one more option though: All roads lead to us. That is, any possible universe would develop sentient life that's comparable to us at some stage, and whatever fundamentals there are, they would be just randomness that does not need an explanation. Which would be another conjecture that you can't prove without an exhaustive search in all possible universes.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 05:10 PM   #12
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here comes Weinstein

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
and an explanation of why particles have mass that doesn't seem like an arbitrary add-on like the Higgs field does.
Only problem is, Higgs field is there, they already highly likely found the Higgs boson (and even if they didn't, they did FIND something, that - whatever you may call it - gives the particles their mass). So it's not an arbitrary add-on.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 06:54 PM   #13
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

The Higgs is an arbitrary add-on, much like dark matter or dark energy.
It's put there not because a theory predicted it, but because it's something that must be added to theory in order to conform to experiment.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 07:33 PM   #14
YellowSubmarine
Commodore
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
The Higgs is an arbitrary add-on, much like dark matter or dark energy.
It's put there not because a theory predicted it, but because it's something that must be added to theory in order to conform to experiment.
Those are two are different ways to say the same thing.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 07:43 PM   #15
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: Look out Einstein, here come Weinstein

What good is a theory that doesn't conform to experimental results? That's a rhetorical question, by the way.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.